Questions about International Shipping

**dadipentak** · 10-17-2010, 05:20 AM

I'm considering an offer on an expensive lens from an area which has a reputation for shipping issues. I guess the plan would be to ship USPS fully insured and with delivery confirmation. Two questions:

1. Does anyone here have any experience with collecting on the insurance after a shipment got ...um..."lost"? If so, how much of hassle was it?

2. The would-be buyer requests that the value declared for customs purposes be understated to some degree. Would the discrepancy between declared and insured value be an issue if I needed to collect on the insurance?

**ramseybuckeye** · 10-17-2010, 07:18 AM

Sorry, I don't have any wxperience collecting on shipping insurance, but I would be very skeptical about insurance covering more than the customs value. I was unaware that other countries could ship via USPS, much more skepticism!

JeffJS · 10-17-2010, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by dadipentak

I'm considering an offer on an expensive lens from an area which has a reputation for shipping issues. I guess the plan would be to ship USPS fully insured and with delivery confirmation. Two questions:

1. Does anyone here have any experience with collecting on the insurance after a shipment got ...um..."lost"? If so, how much of hassle was it?

2. The would-be buyer requests that the value declared for customs purposes be understated to some degree. Would the discrepancy between declared and insured value be an issue if I needed to collect on the insurance?

I don't even know if the post office will allow an insured amount different than the Declared amount. I would almost certainly think, that if they did, the payout (if you got one at all) would be the lesser amount. If it's really a concern to you, you may do well to sell it to someone else. What country?

Also, Since the insured amount is written directly on the customs form, it may cause a problem at the other end.

**dadipentak** · 10-17-2010, 04:28 PM

Thanks for the responses. I don't want to finger the country, Jeff--let's just say there are grounds for concern. ,

JeffJS · 10-17-2010, 05:00 PM - **1 Like**

Bottom line is I would not fudge the documents. Whatever you are selling, will sell. The buyer can find another if he/she is uncomfortable with your terms.

That's my nickel's worth of advice.

woof · 10-17-2010, 05:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by dadipentak

I'm considering an offer on an expensive lens from an area which has a reputation for shipping issues. I guess the plan would be to ship USPS fully insured and with delivery confirmation. Two questions:

1. Does anyone here have any experience with collecting on the insurance after a shipment got ...um..."lost"? If so, how much of hassle was it?

2. The would-be buyer requests that the value declared for customs purposes be understated to some degree. Would the discrepancy between declared and insured value be an issue if I needed to collect on the insurance?

Collecting the insurance is not all that difficult. As long as the delivery is tracked, and can be confirmed. Don't declare one value and insure for a greater value. You will set yourself up for issues.

woof!

**dadipentak** · 10-18-2010, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by woof

Don't declare one value and insure for a greater value. You will set yourself up for issues.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I don't want any issues: this would have to be a bullet-proof arrangement. Thanks for confirming my instinct.

**newmikey** · 10-18-2010, 04:18 AM

It is my professional day job to advise my employer on compliant, cost-saving Customs procedures in import and export worldwide. Understating the value can be a reason for the insurance to forgo payment altogether on the basis of fraud as well as putting you on the line with a criminal offense with the Customs authorities in the country of export - more so if that is the US, as in your case. To top that off, your parcel may be impounded by Customs in the country of destination and the buyer may be up for penalties like double the amount of taxes due.

Have a look at this US Customs explanation.

The WTO and WCO basis for Customs valuation worldwide is the GATT agreement: Article VII of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade laid down the general principles for an international system of valuation. It stipulated that the value for customs purposes of imported merchandise should be based on the actual value of the imported merchandise on which duty is assessed, or of like merchandise, and should not be based on the value of merchandise of national origin or on arbitrary or fictitious values.

**dadipentak** · 10-18-2010, 05:14 AM

Always good to get the official reading--thanks, newmikey

pxpaulx · 10-18-2010, 05:45 AM - **1 Like**

I always mark the full value on customs form, and insurance (same amounts) - Newmikey makes an excellent point in that regard. I mark as gift, send USPS express mail international fully insured - the express mail option is actually only a negligible amount more as insurance is quite cheaper to purchase than if you ship priority mail (for instance, I sent a lens marked at $180 and it only cost an additional $0.75 for full insurance via express mail). It also gets there faster, and has better tracking IMO.

thirdofthree · 10-19-2010, 11:48 PM

You may want to review the USPS international mail manual. Best I can figure, plain old Express Mail International provides tracking, but not delivery confirmation. The regulations are not entirely clear, unfortunately.

I take the conservative view (especially for high value content) that tracking is not the same as delivery confirmation. For true delivery confirmation with Express Mail International, you need a return receipt . Fortunately, return receipt is included in the EMI the price. It's my experience that you must specifically request return receipt as an added service. Unfortunately, only a small number of countries provide return receipts to the sender via USPS.

JeffJS · 10-20-2010, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by thirdofthree

You may want to review the USPS international mail manual. Best I can figure, plain old Express Mail International provides tracking, but not delivery confirmation. The regulations are not entirely clear, unfortunately.

I take the conservative view (especially for high value content) that tracking is not the same as delivery confirmation. For true delivery confirmation with Express Mail International, you need a return receipt . Fortunately, return receipt is included in the EMI the price. It's my experience that you must specifically request return receipt as an added service. Unfortunately, only a small number of countries provide return receipts to the sender via USPS.

I no longer have the forms from my last EMS shipment so I cannot prove this beyond a doubt but I do believe that the tracking number DOES show delivery and is the Only one to reliably do so. Any method of tracking requires (of course) the proper scan on the other end of the journey.

**dadipentak** · 10-20-2010, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by thirdofthree

You may want to review the USPS international mail manual. Best I can figure, plain old Express Mail International provides tracking, but not delivery confirmation. The regulations are not entirely clear, unfortunately.

I take the conservative view (especially for high value content) that tracking is not the same as delivery confirmation. For true delivery confirmation with Express Mail International, you need a return receipt . Fortunately, return receipt is included in the EMI the price. It's my experience that you must specifically request return receipt as an added service. Unfortunately, only a small number of countries provide return receipts to the sender via USPS.

I love the catch-all, "10. Other valuable articles" in the EMI list of prohibited items: I mean, huh?!

The bottom line for me is that shipping a big ticket item to a country which does not provide proof of delivery is simply out of my comfort zone.

10-17-2010, 05:20 AM	#1
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Questions about International Shipping I'm considering an offer on an expensive lens from an area which has a reputation for shipping issues. I guess the plan would be to ship USPS fully insured and with delivery confirmation. Two questions: 1. Does anyone here have any experience with collecting on the insurance after a shipment got ...um..."lost"? If so, how much of hassle was it? 2. The would-be buyer requests that the value declared for customs purposes be understated to some degree. Would the discrepancy between declared and insured value be an issue if I needed to collect on the insurance?

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10-17-2010, 07:18 AM	#2
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,294	Sorry, I don't have any wxperience collecting on shipping insurance, but I would be very skeptical about insurance covering more than the customs value. I was unaware that other countries could ship via USPS, much more skepticism!

10-17-2010, 01:34 PM	#3
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by dadipentak I'm considering an offer on an expensive lens from an area which has a reputation for shipping issues. I guess the plan would be to ship USPS fully insured and with delivery confirmation. Two questions: 1. Does anyone here have any experience with collecting on the insurance after a shipment got ...um..."lost"? If so, how much of hassle was it? 2. The would-be buyer requests that the value declared for customs purposes be understated to some degree. Would the discrepancy between declared and insured value be an issue if I needed to collect on the insurance? I don't even know if the post office will allow an insured amount different than the Declared amount. I would almost certainly think, that if they did, the payout (if you got one at all) would be the lesser amount. If it's really a concern to you, you may do well to sell it to someone else. What country? Also, Since the insured amount is written directly on the customs form, it may cause a problem at the other end.

10-17-2010, 04:28 PM	#4
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590 Original Poster	Thanks for the responses. I don't want to finger the country, Jeff--let's just say there are grounds for concern. ,

10-17-2010, 05:00 PM - 1 Like	#5
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Bottom line is I would not fudge the documents. Whatever you are selling, will sell. The buyer can find another if he/she is uncomfortable with your terms. That's my nickel's worth of advice.

10-17-2010, 05:16 PM - 1 Like	#6
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by dadipentak I'm considering an offer on an expensive lens from an area which has a reputation for shipping issues. I guess the plan would be to ship USPS fully insured and with delivery confirmation. Two questions: 1. Does anyone here have any experience with collecting on the insurance after a shipment got ...um..."lost"? If so, how much of hassle was it? 2. The would-be buyer requests that the value declared for customs purposes be understated to some degree. Would the discrepancy between declared and insured value be an issue if I needed to collect on the insurance? Collecting the insurance is not all that difficult. As long as the delivery is tracked, and can be confirmed. Don't declare one value and insure for a greater value. You will set yourself up for issues. woof!

10-18-2010, 03:53 AM	#7
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590 Original Poster	Originally posted by woof Don't declare one value and insure for a greater value. You will set yourself up for issues. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I don't want any issues: this would have to be a bullet-proof arrangement. Thanks for confirming my instinct.

10-18-2010, 04:18 AM	#8
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,289	It is my professional day job to advise my employer on compliant, cost-saving Customs procedures in import and export worldwide. Understating the value can be a reason for the insurance to forgo payment altogether on the basis of fraud as well as putting you on the line with a criminal offense with the Customs authorities in the country of export - more so if that is the US, as in your case. To top that off, your parcel may be impounded by Customs in the country of destination and the buyer may be up for penalties like double the amount of taxes due. Have a look at this US Customs explanation. The WTO and WCO basis for Customs valuation worldwide is the GATT agreement: Article VII of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade laid down the general principles for an international system of valuation. It stipulated that the value for customs purposes of imported merchandise should be based on the actual value of the imported merchandise on which duty is assessed, or of like merchandise, and should not be based on the value of merchandise of national origin or on arbitrary or fictitious values.

10-18-2010, 05:14 AM	#9
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590 Original Poster	Always good to get the official reading--thanks, newmikey

10-18-2010, 05:45 AM - 1 Like	#10
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	I always mark the full value on customs form, and insurance (same amounts) - Newmikey makes an excellent point in that regard. I mark as gift, send USPS express mail international fully insured - the express mail option is actually only a negligible amount more as insurance is quite cheaper to purchase than if you ship priority mail (for instance, I sent a lens marked at $180 and it only cost an additional $0.75 for full insurance via express mail). It also gets there faster, and has better tracking IMO.

10-19-2010, 11:48 PM	#11
thirdofthree Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Highland Park, IL Posts: 217	You may want to review the USPS international mail manual. Best I can figure, plain old Express Mail International provides tracking, but not delivery confirmation. The regulations are not entirely clear, unfortunately. I take the conservative view (especially for high value content) that tracking is not the same as delivery confirmation. For true delivery confirmation with Express Mail International, you need a return receipt . Fortunately, return receipt is included in the EMI the price. It's my experience that you must specifically request return receipt as an added service. Unfortunately, only a small number of countries provide return receipts to the sender via USPS.

10-20-2010, 12:18 AM	#12
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by thirdofthree You may want to review the USPS international mail manual. Best I can figure, plain old Express Mail International provides tracking, but not delivery confirmation. The regulations are not entirely clear, unfortunately. I take the conservative view (especially for high value content) that tracking is not the same as delivery confirmation. For true delivery confirmation with Express Mail International, you need a return receipt . Fortunately, return receipt is included in the EMI the price. It's my experience that you must specifically request return receipt as an added service. Unfortunately, only a small number of countries provide return receipts to the sender via USPS. I no longer have the forms from my last EMS shipment so I cannot prove this beyond a doubt but I do believe that the tracking number DOES show delivery and is the Only one to reliably do so. Any method of tracking requires (of course) the proper scan on the other end of the journey.

10-20-2010, 04:24 AM	#13
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590 Original Poster	Originally posted by thirdofthree You may want to review the USPS international mail manual. Best I can figure, plain old Express Mail International provides tracking, but not delivery confirmation. The regulations are not entirely clear, unfortunately. I take the conservative view (especially for high value content) that tracking is not the same as delivery confirmation. For true delivery confirmation with Express Mail International, you need a return receipt . Fortunately, return receipt is included in the EMI the price. It's my experience that you must specifically request return receipt as an added service. Unfortunately, only a small number of countries provide return receipts to the sender via USPS. I love the catch-all, "10. Other valuable articles" in the EMI list of prohibited items: I mean, huh?! The bottom line for me is that shipping a big ticket item to a country which does not provide proof of delivery is simply out of my comfort zone.