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11-01-2010, 06:55 AM   #1
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Let's not forget about health care

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Prof. Morone speculates that white fears about an increasingly diverse America may also be driving the opposition to reform. Some believe the proposed health overhaul would redistribute wealth from white to disproportionately poor blacks.

Indeed, Glenn Beck, the controversial Fox News commentator, alleged recently that health-care reform and other policies are “transforming America, and they’re all driven by President Obama’s thinking on one idea: reparations.”

While polls show most Americans want health reform, support for the current plans seems to be slipping, with disapproval of Mr. Obama’s handling of the issue running 49-43 in a recent Gallup poll. The decisive factor in getting a bill through Congress, meanwhile, is likely to be the support of conservative, or “blue-dog” Democrats who have voiced concerns about the legislation.

Still, Prof. Morone says the rocky history of the White House and health care indicates that now is the time to act, before the President’s post-election influence wanes even further.

“Speed is essential.”...............Prof. Morone says the current battle should come as no surprise, however, given that 10 presidents -- from Roosevelt to Nixon -- have confidently set out to introduce national health care, and all failed.

Read more: Debate in U.S. more than just about health care



Debate in U.S. more than just about health care

11-01-2010, 03:36 PM   #2
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You just know that the conservatives are going to take that photo and retouch something stupid and ignorant in those signs, right?

That's all that the conservatives have done for two years now!

"Political campaigning through ignorance, stupidity, fear and hate."
11-02-2010, 08:51 AM   #3
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No, we don't need European/Canadian or other similar Health care style in U.S.

We have our own system that need to be tweaked here and there and hopefully today my vote will help to undo what has been forced upon us.

Thanks but no thanks Obama, keep your agenda out of my life and my own personal decisions.
11-02-2010, 09:10 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
“Speed is essential.”...............Prof. Morone says the current battle should come as no surprise, however, given that 10 presidents -- from Roosevelt to Nixon -- have confidently set out to introduce national health care, and all failed.
He forgot about Carter and Clinton.

Health care reform advocates should be happy that Ted Kennedy is dead since he cock blocked Nixon's plans and Carter's plans. If not for the "liberal lion," universal coverage could have been achieved decades ago.

11-02-2010, 09:27 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
He forgot about Carter and Clinton.

Health care reform advocates should be happy that Ted Kennedy is dead since he cock blocked Nixon's plans and Carter's plans. If not for the "liberal lion," universal coverage could have been achieved decades ago.
Doesn't change the need for it................. Ins. co's had there day
11-02-2010, 09:31 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by fiveseven Quote
No, we don't need European/Canadian or other similar Health care style in U.S.

We have our own system that need to be tweaked here and there and hopefully today my vote will help to undo what has been forced upon us.

Thanks but no thanks Obama, keep your agenda out of my life and my own personal decisions.
Try some independent thought for a change... instead of just parroting a party line...
No need to repeat the reams of statistics that prove you wrong.. do your own homework.
11-02-2010, 09:47 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Try some independent thought for a change... instead of just parroting a party line...
No need to repeat the reams of statistics that prove you wrong.. do your own homework.
I did my homework and I know what I'm talking about.

I don't need IRS keeping tab and be in charge of my health care.
I do not want to pay for anyone else but myself and my family.
I do not want anyone to pay for me if I chose to not buy an insurance (it's called freedom and pay for your own actions or choices you make in life).
I have health insurance and have been very satisfied with it for a long time and guess what? I pay for mine and I don't have a desire to pay for a Joe blow down the block who chooses not to work and lives off the government (me).

If healthcare insuranse is so important to induvudual than get a job that offers one.... So far we became the best country and haven't died off. We will return stronger than ever...... Once we undo all this, hopefully today will be the start.

I did not vote for this change and quite a few people were gullible enough to believe "Change" propaganda.....

This was actually the reality coming down...

11-02-2010, 10:05 AM   #8
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fiveseven, unfortunately while you are obviously emotionally committed to your position, it simply is not reality-based.
1) the IRS is not in charge of your health care
2) you are in effect subsidising othes via your premiums
3) if you have no insurance, you will not be left in the street to die: the rest of us foot the bill
4) your contribution is subsidizing and/or subsidized by others, and not just the person 'choosing not to work', but also the person whose company does not choose to offer coverage.

Finally the program that has your hackles raised is a middle of the road, centrist, one with major components proposed and/or enacted by Republicans in the past.

Plus, why are you not angry at Bush-Prescription-Care, that unfunded monstrosity foisted on us in an effort to cater to the Medicare cadre?

11-02-2010, 10:13 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
Finally the program that has your hackles raised is a middle of the road, centrist, one with major components proposed and/or enacted by Republicans in the past.
How do democrats simultaneously cheer democrats for being caring when they expand plans and ideas previously developed, proposed, and enacted by republicans while simultaneously hating on republicans for being heartless SOBs despite the fact that the plans were the brainchild of republicans?
11-02-2010, 10:13 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Try some independent thought for a change...
Jeff, please take this in lighthearted spirit in which it is intended...................
That seems like an ironic statement from the master of copy-and-paste.
11-02-2010, 10:25 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by fiveseven Quote
No, we don't need European/Canadian or other similar Health care style in U.S.

We have our own system that need to be tweaked here and there and hopefully today my vote will help to undo what has been forced upon us.

Thanks but no thanks Obama, keep your agenda out of my life and my own personal decisions.
Exactly what tweaks are needed to cover the 45 million uninsured or the almost one million that will file for bankruptcy this year due to medical bills. I'd love to hear your suggestions.
11-02-2010, 10:27 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
How do democrats simultaneously cheer democrats for being caring when they expand plans and ideas previously developed, proposed, and enacted by republicans while simultaneously hating on republicans for being heartless SOBs despite the fact that the plans were the brainchild of republicans?
Easy: Many democrats do not like Obama because of his centrist health care bill, and for other centrist things he does. There's a cause for the enthusiasm gap this election.

And worse: after all his centrist seeking of common ground and appeasement with Republicans, what do the Republicans do? They run the other direction, they go nuclear on their own policies as Obama policies, they stonewall and obstruct in Congress. As most Democrats are reality-based, this sort of thing is a mind bender.
11-02-2010, 10:43 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Jeff, please take this in lighthearted spirit in which it is intended...................
That seems like an ironic statement from the master of copy-and-paste.
Well in part you have a point BUT I digested the reams of independent (MOST of it) and the other side... my side wins on even the simplest moral grounds... taking care of ALL our citizens.
I believe if you look rarely do I post a party line w/out facts... thus the cut and paste.
Certainly I can't do ALL the core research.. that's what others are for.. BUT if one opens their mind it's pretty easy to connect the dots... though it isn't always the easy conclusion (at least monetarily).
11-02-2010, 10:47 AM   #14
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No need to defend yourself, Jeff. I just happened to see a stick lying there and thought "WTH, I might as well poke him with it."
11-02-2010, 10:57 AM   #15
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I should add that the arguments I find most convincing around health care are economic: the existing trend will bankrupt us all (save the top 1% economically). So something must be done. It is also good to examine what the current situation actually is, to see where our dollars are actually going, so we can then judge better what is being proposed.

In this context, I may feel for those without coverage, or preexisting conditions, but more to the point, I see how these people's costs don't simply disappear as though they never existed. In other words, there's a healthy dose of self interest. And I don't begrudge anyone else their self interest, only question its scope or how well thought through it may be.


Kind of like: what's the difference between a liberal plutocrat and a conservative one? A difference in opinion on what the best way to stay rich is.
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