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11-03-2010, 05:57 PM   #1
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Bill Moyers - Welcome to Plutocracy

It's a long read, but a pretty good read. If you've got the time, give it a go. You may agree or disagree with the article, and that's okay by me. My intention was to simply point out one man's opinion of America today. My personal feeling is that the Citizens United decision of early this year was not good for us.

t r u t h o u t | Bill Moyers: "Welcome to the Plutocracy!"

Larry

11-03-2010, 07:30 PM   #2
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does need a few quotes..........
QuoteQuote:
And what about the country? Between 2001 and 2008, about 40,000 US manufacturing plants closed. Six million factory jobs have disappeared over the past dozen years, representing one in three manufacturing jobs. Natalie Ford said to the Times what many of us are wondering: “I don’t know how without any good-paying jobs here in the United States people are going to pay for their health care, put their children through school.”

Now, if Connie Brasel and Natalie Ford lived in South Carolina, they might have been lucky enough to get a job with the new BMW plant that recently opened there and advertised that the company would hire one thousand workers. Among the applicants? According to the Washington Post; “a former manager of a major distribution center for Target; a consultant who oversaw construction projects in four western states; a supervisor at a plastics recycling firm. Some held college degrees and resumes in other fields where they made more money.” They will be paid $15 an hour – about half of what BMW workers earn in Germany

In polite circles, among our political and financial classes, this is known as “the free market at work.” No, it’s “wage repression,” and it’s been happening in our country since around 1980.
QuoteQuote:
But then it stopped. Since 1980 the economy has also continued to grow handsomely, but only a fraction at the top have benefitted. The line flattens for the bottom 90% of Americans. Average income went from that $30,941 in 1980 to $31,244 in 2008. Think about that: the average income of Americans increased just $303 dollars in 28 years
QuoteQuote:
Or the chief economist for Credit Suisse in New York, Neal Soss: As companies have wrung more savings out of their work forces, causing wages and salaries barely to budge from recession lows, “profits have staged a vigorous recovery, jumping 40 percent between late 2008 and the first quarter of 2010.”

Just this morning the New York Times reports that the private equity business is roaring back: “While it remains difficult to get a mortgage to buy a home or to get a loan to fund a small business, yield-starved investors are creating a robust market for corporate bonds and loans.”

If this were a functioning democracy, our financial institutions would be helping everyday Americans and businesses get the mortgages and loans – the capital – they need to keep going; they’re not, even as the financiers are reaping robust awards.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. But he’s run off with all the toys.
At least we have some new clowns to amuse us.........
QuoteQuote:
And they have never given up. The Gilded Age returned with a vengeance in our time. It slipped in quietly at first, back in the early 1980s, when Ronald Reagan began a “massive decades-long transfer of national wealth to the rich.” As Roger Hodge makes clear, under Bill Clinton the transfer was even more dramatic, as the top 10 percent captured an ever-growing share of national income. The trend continued under George W. Bush – those huge tax cuts for the rich, remember, which are now about to be extended because both parties have been bought off by the wealthy – and by 2007 the wealthiest 10% of Americans were taking in 50% of the national income. Today, a fraction of people at the top today earn more than the bottom 120 million Americans.

You will hear it said, “Come on, this is the way the world works.” No, it’s the way the world is made to work. This vast inequality is not the result of Adam Smith’s invisible hand; it did not just happen; it was no accident. As Hodge drives home, it is the result of a long series of policy decisions “about industry and trade, taxation and military spending, by flesh-and-blood humans sitting in concrete-and-steel buildings.” And those policy decisions were paid for by the less than one percent who participate in our capitalist democracy political contributions. Over the past 30 years, with the complicity of Republicans and Democrats alike, the plutocrats, or plutonomists (choose your own poison) have used their vastly increased wealth to assure that government does their bidding.
QuoteQuote:
But let’s be clear: Even with most Americans on our side, the odds are long. We learned long ago that power and privilege never give up anything without a struggle. Money fights hard, and it fights dirty. Think Rove. The Chamber. The Kochs. We may lose. It all may be impossible. But it’s OK if it’s impossible. Hear the former farmworker and labor organizer Baldemar Velasquez on this. The members of his Farm Labor Organizing Committee are a long way from the world of K Street lobbyists. But they took on the Campbell Soup Company – and won. They took on North Carolina growers – and won, using transnational organizing tacts that helped win Velasquez a “genius” award from the MacArthur Foundation. And now they’re taking on no less than R. J. Reynolds Tobacco and one of its principle financial sponsors, JPMorgan-Chase. Some people question the wisdom of taking on such powerful interests, but here’s what Velasquez says: “It’s OK if it’s impossible; it’s OK! Now I’m going to speak to you as organizers. Listen carefully. The object is not to win. That’s not the objective. The object is to do the right and good thing. If you decide not to do anything, because it’s too hard or too impossible, then nothing will be done, and when you’re on your death bed, you’re gonna say, “I wish I had done something. But if you go and do the right thing NOW, and you do it long enough “good things will happen—something’s gonna happen.”

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11-03-2010, 07:44 PM   #3
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Yeah, this one's pretty meaty.

I've wondered for a long time, like, 'What, does this stuff just not compute to some people?'

Have an urge to label this for Tea Partiers: 'Now Let's See What You've 'Won'...'
11-03-2010, 08:55 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by larryinlc Quote
It's a long read, but a pretty good read. If you've got the time, give it a go. You may agree or disagree with the article, and that's okay by me. My intention was to simply point out one man's opinion of America today. My personal feeling is that the Citizens United decision of early this year was not good for us.

t r u t h o u t | Bill Moyers: "Welcome to the Plutocracy!"

Larry
Sorry, but Bill Moyers has not been a journalist since I can remember. He has had an agenda of progressive liberalism ever since I first saw him on PBS over 30 years ago. He was amusing at one time but I grew tired of his rants against America and capitalism. I now do not have to listen to him or read his nonsense because I have heard it all before. Nothing new here.

11-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Artesian Quote
Sorry, but Bill Moyers has not been a journalist since I can remember. He has had an agenda of progressive liberalism ever since I first saw him on PBS over 30 years ago. He was amusing at one time but I grew tired of his rants against America and capitalism. I now do not have to listen to him or read his nonsense because I have heard it all before. Nothing new here.
Typical of your posts, attacking the man rather than the content of his argument. Nothing new here.
11-04-2010, 06:23 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Artesian Quote
Sorry, but Bill Moyers has not been a journalist since I can remember. He has had an agenda of progressive liberalism ever since I first saw him on PBS over 30 years ago. He was amusing at one time but I grew tired of his rants against America and capitalism. I now do not have to listen to him or read his nonsense because I have heard it all before. Nothing new here.
So that means he stops thinking??? And of course some can say the same for your "side"....... nothing new there either....
11-04-2010, 07:31 AM   #7
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A question for American Conservatives:

Take a good hard look around you and ask yourself: Is the American economic model that I profess is the best one in the world working for most of the people in my country?

11-04-2010, 08:20 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
A question for American Conservatives:

Take a good hard look around you and ask yourself: Is the American economic model that I profess is the best one in the world working for most of the people in my country?
I think you're asking too much, sadly.
11-04-2010, 08:30 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
A question for American Conservatives:

Take a good hard look around you and ask yourself: Is the American economic model that I profess is the best one in the world working for most of the people in my country?
Bill, that question is impossible to answer as asked. We haven't had a conservative economic model in place since January 20, 1993.

The problem actually started before that. Bush 1 made a deal with Congress that he would sign the largest tax increase in history if the budget would include 2 dollars in spending cuts for every 1 dollar in tax increases. He kept his end of the bargain, he raised the taxes. The [Democrat controlled] Congress reneged.

Last edited by Parallax; 11-04-2010 at 08:37 AM.
11-04-2010, 08:33 AM   #10
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Back in the '80s I subscribed to Forbes (I stopped when Malcom left us, his sons are unimaginative and often political water carriers, when compared to dad)...

Anyway, I can well remember when the Make America Competetive thing started... suddenly Forbes and other media started to run stories comparing US wages and costs of doing business against other countries, and there was a Productivity Gap identified, and Policies to Redress the Gap.

My thoughts at the time: OK, make room for a longer work week and lower pay.

This was before technology created the conditions for wholesale offshoring.

---

Interesting that Moyers talked about Harley-Davidson. Just this morning CNN ran a story on a Mangoes for Harlies trade deal.
Trade deal: Mangoes for Harleys - USATODAY.com

The Harley guy in India was explaining, on CNN, how "made in America parts, assembled in India" created jobs on both sides of the deal.
11-04-2010, 10:42 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
A question for American Conservatives:

Take a good hard look around you and ask yourself: Is the American economic model that I profess is the best one in the world working for most of the people in my country?
A question for American Liberals:

Take a good hard look around you and ask yourself: Will the protectionist economic model that I profess is the best one for the people in my country work for most of the people in the world (China, India, and Africa)?

--------------------
I wonder if Bill Moyers, certainly in the 10%, is talking from his experience as a co-conspirator to oppress the bottom 90%.
11-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
A question for American Liberals:

Take a good hard look around you and ask yourself: Will the protectionist economic model that I profess is the best one for the people in my country work for most of the people in the world (China, India, and Africa)?

--------------------
I wonder if Bill Moyers, certainly in the 10%, is talking from his experience as a co-conspirator to oppress the bottom 90%.
Is shifting arguments just reflex by now? What 'protectionism' are you talking about? Maybe it's not 'protectionism' to simply not let Wall Street outsource the basis of our economy for Wall Street profits?

(Actually, I thought the guy America voted for not too long ago was pointing out that we've got to build some things for the current economy, if there's to be anything to 'protect' or not 'protect' to begin with.)

Someone's wondering 'What's Going On In America,' ... I think the Moyers speech and the responses to it spell things out pretty well. At least if one can triangulate with a few facts.

It sure doesn't help other nations to be treated the same or worse by the multinationals simply because their workers expect less in some regards. Being 'ahead' in a 'race to the bottom,' ...isn't my idea of progress. For anyone.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 11-04-2010 at 02:00 PM.
11-04-2010, 01:46 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I wonder if Bill Moyers, certainly in the 10%, is talking from his experience as a co-conspirator to oppress the bottom 90%
There's that over-simplification of Liberal ideas again. Liberals are not against people being in the top 10%, at least those who are math literate The point isn't that being successful automatically makes you an oppressor and co-consipriator. Nor is the point that we ought to punish success.

The point is that if we want a fair society, one that is like those eras in our history that have indeed produced the greatest liberty in pursuit of happiness, there has to be some moderation of income and property distribution.

The point is that having the government borrow more money, run a bigger deficit, in order to hand the top earners an additional and large sum of money is income redistribution and increases income inequality. The point is that even if the economy grows as a direct result of this (so far this is far from proven, in fact there's a lot of contrary evidence) future Republicans will be agitating for further tax cuts to the wealthy, and at any rate, someone will have to pay back those borrowed dollars we gave away. Guess who that is?
11-04-2010, 03:40 PM   #14
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Yeah, I dunno, Nesster: if people want to worry about money, they might want to look where the big money really goes.
11-04-2010, 05:21 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
The point is that having the government borrow more money, run a bigger deficit, in order to hand the top earners an additional and large sum of money is income redistribution and increases income inequality.
What about when states borrow money in the form of tax exempt municipal bonds that are most attractive to high income people?
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