[Nesster]

I think Soros and some fellow billionaires should fund a Latte Party to drive the Democrats left

[jeffkrol]

Absolutely not a distinction without a difference. From a congressional head count, the country moved just right. If part of the reason that government moved right is that the current government did not propose a program which went far enough left, then there may be a problem with the two-party system.

Actually I believe that could be a possible explaination. IF Obama passed "Medicare for all" and there wasn't a billion page bill we may not have seen what we saw....... Pretty easy to explain "medicare" NOT easy to explain "THE BILL"....................
Throw a few bank execs in jail wouldn't have hurt either.
Also if he would have "cold turkey" pulled out of the 2 wars that again would have fired up his "base"............... No facts to this but it is a thought.
As it was voting Repub or Dem really was not presented as a difference to many, except for the old f@rts........
Sometimes it's not what you did but what you didn't do............... and to support this is the "let's not get too confident" Repub response......
And yes we have a problem w/ the 2 party system......

[GeneV]

I know I'm in deep trouble when I didn't understand one of Gene's posts, and yours cleared it up for me.

I need a nap!

I just took one. I'm still at half-speed from my injuries so I probably needed some help.

[johnmflores]

The winner takes all elections ensure 2 parties - proportional representation would result in multiple parties, as then the #2 and #3 parties will get people into the House within a state, depending on which party gets how many votes. District by district winner takes all suppresses the smaller parties.

This is very true. Add to that the organizational advantages of the existing parties as well as a host of little rules - i.e., Republicans and Democrats ALWAYS get the 2 first slots on a ballot, the gerrymandering of districts, etc... - and it's very hard to move beyond the 2 party system.

I spent several days last year following NJ Independent candidate for governor Chris Daggett and got an inside look at the challenges:

Vimeo

[Wheatfield]

The problem isn't with a two party system. If you want to look at a total political failure, look at what Italy goes through with what seems like an infinite number of parties.

The problem with most political systems is that the politicians themselves are essentially dishonest (the American system being especially dishonest), and that there is no accountability within the American system for when a politician is dishonest.
Or at least whatever mechanism is in place doesn't ever seem to be invoked.

[Parallax]

The problem with most political systems is that the politicians themselves are essentially dishonest (the American system being especially dishonest), and that there is no accountability within the American system for when a politician is dishonest.
Or at least whatever mechanism is in place doesn't ever seem to be invoked.

That is without a doubt the best, most accurate synopsis of the problem yet. I would point out, however, that they are not as corrupt as they used to be. Thanks to a Supreme Court ruling that removed the cap on bribes to politicians, some of what used to be considered corruption is now legal.

[mikemike]

The problem with most political systems is that the politicians themselves are essentially dishonest (the American system being especially dishonest), and that there is no accountability within the American system for when a politician is dishonest.
Or at least whatever mechanism is in place doesn't ever seem to be invoked.

By the time their illegal activities are exposed, their political support is deeply entrenched so they keep getting re-elected like Bill Jefferson (D-LA), Edwin Edwards (D-LA), Maxine Waters (D-CA), Jim Traficant (D-OH), Charlie Rangel (D-NY), Tom Delay (R-TX), Rod Blagoyovich (D-IL), George Ryan (R-IL), Duke Cunningham (R-CA), Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-TX). Elections are supposed to be the main way to kick the scoundrels out, but those don't seem to work and the legal system for removal is long and drawn out since they were designed by the scoundrels themselves.

[GeneV]

By the time their illegal activities are exposed, their political support is deeply entrenched so they keep getting re-elected like Bill Jefferson (D-LA), Edwin Edwards (D-LA), Maxine Waters (D-CA), Jim Traficant (D-OH), Charlie Rangel (D-NY), Tom Delay (R-TX), Rod Blagoyovich (D-IL), George Ryan (R-IL), Duke Cunningham (R-CA), Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-TX). Elections are supposed to be the main way to kick the scoundrels out, but those don't seem to work and the legal system for removal is long and drawn out since they were designed by the scoundrels themselves.

I'm not sure that is the (only) kind of dishonesty that he meant. Lying to the electorate has no negative consequences nor does being on the payroll of contributors.

[jeffkrol]

I'm not sure that is the (only) kind of dishonesty that he meant. Lying to the electorate has no negative consequences nor does being on the payroll of contributors.

I never did understand that one............. guess I'm un-american.

[johnmflores]

The problem with most political systems is that the politicians themselves are essentially dishonest (the American system being especially dishonest), and that there is no accountability within the American system for when a politician is dishonest.

You must have never visited the Third World.

For all of its flaws, the American system still has many admirable virtues that others would do well to emulate.

[mikemike]

You must have never visited the Third World.

For all of its flaws, the American system still has many admirable virtues that others would do well to emulate.

+1

I think there are a lot of people, mostly on the left, who are jaded by the american system and they do not realize how good we have it.

[johnmflores]

+1

I think there are a lot of people, mostly on the left, who are jaded by the american system and they do not realize how good we have it.

I don't think the jadedness is limited to left or right. Cynicism crosses party lines

[Wheatfield]

You must have never visited the Third World.

For all of its flaws, the American system still has many admirable virtues that others would do well to emulate.

I find it rather sad that you would use the Third World as a measuring stick.

[johnmflores]

I find it rather sad that you would use the Third World as a measuring stick.

I find it rather sad that you throw around words like "especially dishonest" without any context and then complain when someone tries to provide some.

[jeffkrol]

+1

I think there are a lot of people, mostly on the left, who are jaded by the american system and they do not realize how good we have it.

How good we have it is not the same as how good do you think we should have it......BIG difference.....
Just food for thought:
How the World Views America - So Different From How America Views Itself

Healthcare

America is famous for its lack of health care for its poorer citizens.
The World Health Organization used to publish a table of the best health care systems in the world (It stopped doing this in 2000 due to the complexity of the task).
The Superpower that is America came in at 37th.
21 of the top 25 positions were European with France occupying the top spot.
The world sees the size of the American economy and cannot understand how there is no free health care system in place.

The current resistance to health care reform reinforces the view that large corporations have too much political power. It is perceived that the rights of the corporation go above the rights of the people to have access to health care.

Hitler is the poster boy for evil. Probably the most famous villain in history. He had been rampaging through Europe for 4 years while America watched. The Holocaust continued for all this time and America watched. Tiny nations as far removed from Europe as can be fought against the Nazis. New Zealand had little more to offer than its fighting age men, but they were there from the start.

The Allies were begging the Americans for help but none was forthcoming.

When did America become involved? When they were attacked. 6 million dead Jews later and with both sides of the war on the brink of collapse after 4 years of struggle, the American ride to the rescue.

This point is a perfect example of the gap in perceptions. Americans think that all of Europe is grateful for their heroic actions. Europe remembers their contribution but wonders why the US sat on the sideline while so many died.

More food for thought as you contemplate all those tax cuts.......
http://********.com/hub/The-American-National-Debt-Who-Do-American-Owe