Support the troops and such..

larryinlc · 11-07-2010, 04:38 PM

I suppose I'll get thrown to the wolves for this post, but it's nothing against the men and women in uniform fighting our battles.

I've wondered why every event, both sporting and non sporting alike, seems to start with a dedication to the troops and military for the past serveral years now. Why not support the homeless, unemployed or impoverished once? How about Haiti? Do they not need a little recognition of their ongoing plight they've faced?

Maybe it's that these wars have gone on for so long that the weekly expression of gratitude of our fine military is getting a little long in the tooth?

This is just a thought I had today while I watched the NASCAR race from Texas.

Again, I fully support our troops so don't make me out be a bad person. I'm just wondering.

Larry

MRRiley · 11-07-2010, 04:56 PM

Moved to P&R since this will inevitably turn into a political discussion. To all who respond. This is likely to get very passionate so please remember to keep things on an adult and civil level.

Mike
PF Moderation Team

larryinlc · 11-07-2010, 05:10 PM

I would never intend to cause civil unrest in the Pentax Forum, so delete the thread if you think it would cause problems. My intention was to point out other issues in our country we face that need our support. We live in a big country with many problems, but I think we're too one dimensional in our focus at times. Believe me, I support the troops, but there are always other fires burning that seem to go unnoticed.

Larry

Wheatfield · 11-07-2010, 05:54 PM

My concern with blind support for our troops is that by extension we are blindly supporting what they are doing.
Now, if what they are doing is both legal and just, then I have no problems, but when what they are doing is essentially a criminal war of aggression with another country, they don't deserve our support, and instead what we should be doing is protesting what they are doing.

Consequently, I don't support the war in Iraq (and neither does my government), and I am very ambivalent about the ongoing incursion in Afghanistan, especially since it is doomed to fail, and has been that way since it began.

zelovoc · 11-12-2010, 03:13 AM

Because you are an empire. For some parts of world an evil empire. so support your army, support their crimes and don`t be surprised if you will be hated around the globe. And to be honest, your soldiers are only slaves of your politicians. and to be honest again, i hate your politicians for what they have done to a once great country like USA was.

Oldschool · 11-12-2010, 05:23 AM

Gee zelovoc, it's great hearing from you. I look forward to hearing more of your deep thoughts.

MRRiley · 11-12-2010, 05:43 AM - **1 Like**

The USA... the Evil Empire that you love to get aid from....

Maybe it's time to stop sending billions of dollars overseas whenever there is some natural or man-made disaster? God knows we could put all that money to good use here helping our own people... Heck perhaps we could even buy ourselves back from China.

Wheatfield · 11-12-2010, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by MRRiley

The USA... the Evil Empire that you love to get aid from....

Maybe it's time to stop sending billions of dollars overseas whenever there is some natural or man-made disaster? God knows we could put all that money to good use here helping our own people... Heck perhaps we could even buy ourselves back from China.

That would probably be a good idea (buying yourselves back from China), since at some point doing otherwise will impede your ability to show such largess.
Anyway, when what you are saying comes up I am always reminded of a neighbor we once had.
He seemed a decent guy for the most part, and certainly provided well for his family, but he had a very violent temper.
At some point he turned that temper onto his wife and put her in the hospital, at which time he was no longer the decent guy who made 100K a year and had the best Halloween treats, he was the wife beating dickhead who no one liked.

International aid is well and good, but all the good in the world doesn't go very far compared to the mess your politicians have made in Afghanistan, Iraq, and pretty much the entire Middle East, which is now far less stable than it has ever been before.

Save a few thousand lives after an earthquake somewhere, kill a few hundred thousand in an illegal war of aggression somewhere else. The balance of the scales tips heavily towards the wrong side.

Parallax · 11-12-2010, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

That would probably be a good idea (buying yourselves back from China), since at some point doing otherwise will impede your ability to show such largess.
Anyway, when what you are saying comes up I am always reminded of a neighbor we once had.
He seemed a decent guy for the most part, and certainly provided well for his family, but he had a very violent temper.
At some point he turned that temper onto his wife and put her in the hospital, at which time he was no longer the decent guy who made 100K a year and had the best Halloween treats, he was the wife beating dickhead who no one liked.

International aid is well and good, but all the good in the world doesn't go very far compared to the mess your politicians have made in Afghanistan, Iraq, and pretty much the entire Middle East, which is now far less stable than it has ever been before.

Save a few thousand lives after an earthquake somewhere, kill a few hundred thousand in an illegal war of aggression somewhere else. The balance of the scales tips heavily towards the wrong side.

You're really staring to tick me off, Bill!
In the interest of me maintaining a blood pressure range that is compatible with life; would you mind terribly much posting something that I can argue with? I love to argue, and you and Ben are really letting me down lately.
I'm 70/30 on the "illegal war of aggression" part, but the rest just isn't cutting it.

Phil1 · 11-12-2010, 11:50 AM

Supporting troops isn't supporting some a hole politician or policy.

I had occasion to buy a couple of Marines in class As breakfast on Veterans Day this week. I did it anonymously and it really felt good on a personal basis. I am certain they felt appreciated in a small way. They were probably on thier way to do some ceremony duty while most gov't emplyees had the day off. I am certain that the guys make about 1/12th the pay that the average Washington DC puke on the dole makes and that would be for 24/7 service as needed.

Respect and support for military is not in lieu of any other respect or support for anything or other matters that turn your crank.

The Star Spangled Banner for the druggies in the street would probably find me sitting the music out. But hey, that's just me, you can stand with your hat on and your hands in your pocket or finger in the nose if you want too.

Parallax · 11-12-2010, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Phil1

..........
The Star Spangled Banner for the druggies in the street .............

The entertainment industry has a version of that for their own, sort of. It's the only group I know of where getting hooked on drugs and/or booze and then recovering makes somebody a hero (the more times you repeat the cycle, the more revered you are), but those who don't ever use drugs are just mere mortals.

MRRiley · 11-12-2010, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

That would probably be a good idea (buying yourselves back from China), since at some point doing otherwise will impede your ability to show such largess.
Anyway, when what you are saying comes up I am always reminded of a neighbor we once had.
He seemed a decent guy for the most part, and certainly provided well for his family, but he had a very violent temper.
At some point he turned that temper onto his wife and put her in the hospital, at which time he was no longer the decent guy who made 100K a year and had the best Halloween treats, he was the wife beating dickhead who no one liked.

International aid is well and good, but all the good in the world doesn't go very far compared to the mess your politicians have made in Afghanistan, Iraq, and pretty much the entire Middle East, which is now far less stable than it has ever been before.

Save a few thousand lives after an earthquake somewhere, kill a few hundred thousand in an illegal war of aggression somewhere else. The balance of the scales tips heavily towards the wrong side.

Bill, no arguments about the mess in the middle east... We've made part of it to be sure, but we didn't start it down that road... YOUR empire and the rest of the old world empires did that. And all in all the people living in the middle east have done their best to muck it up even worse and would cheerfully go on doing so even if the rest of the world were to disappear tomorrow.

America's biggest problem is that most of our citizens sincerely want to help the rest of the world live better and longer lives but by the time those desires perculate up to our policy makers things get all tied up in power balances, alliances, adversaries, politics and greed.

It also doesn't matter which party is in charge. They both have their own ways of screwing things up and I distrust them all equally.

Mike

**Ash** · 11-12-2010, 01:03 PM

There'll always be need - and everyone does it tough in all kinds of ways. In what we support though, we foster a culture of patriotism and loyalty to the troops, particularly for the kids to learn about and follow suit... It's easier to take the time to think about the fellow countrymen serving in the military, who we can relate more to, than the poor, afflicted and sick souls in some far-away foreign land.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro6I0Z7FXUU[/yt]

Wheatfield · 11-12-2010, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by MRRiley

Bill, no arguments about the mess in the middle east... We've made part of it to be sure, but we didn't start it down that road... YOUR empire and the rest of the old world empires did that. And all in all the people living in the middle east have done their best to muck it up even worse and would cheerfully go on doing so even if the rest of the world were to disappear tomorrow.

America's biggest problem is that most of our citizens sincerely want to help the rest of the world live better and longer lives but by the time those desires perculate up to our policy makers things get all tied up in power balances, alliances, adversaries, politics and greed.

It also doesn't matter which party is in charge. They both have their own ways of screwing things up and I distrust them all equally.

Mike

Har, I didn't realize the Scottish Empire had that much clout. Seriously Mike, my conscience is clear on that front.

MRRiley · 11-13-2010, 05:28 AM

Well, what I was referring to was the venerable British Empire, of which Canada (and Scotland I believe) is still a nominal part what with recognizing the queen as your sovereign.

The point is, the USA isn't alone in making messes over there, nor are we solely responsible for the current mess.

11-07-2010, 04:38 PM	#1
larryinlc Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Wisconsin USA Posts: 993	Support the troops and such.. I suppose I'll get thrown to the wolves for this post, but it's nothing against the men and women in uniform fighting our battles. I've wondered why every event, both sporting and non sporting alike, seems to start with a dedication to the troops and military for the past serveral years now. Why not support the homeless, unemployed or impoverished once? How about Haiti? Do they not need a little recognition of their ongoing plight they've faced? Maybe it's that these wars have gone on for so long that the weekly expression of gratitude of our fine military is getting a little long in the tooth? This is just a thought I had today while I watched the NASCAR race from Texas. Again, I fully support our troops so don't make me out be a bad person. I'm just wondering. Larry

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Store That We Must Support	john5100	Pentax DSLR Discussion	8	10-02-2010 05:05 PM
Best way to use photography to support yourself?	Abstract	General Talk	12	09-17-2010 08:42 AM
Troops to the Mexican border: Obama to send 1,200	Artesian	General Talk	61	06-14-2010 07:05 PM
The K-X and K-7 support PTP - Doesn't PTP support tethered shooting?	Russell-Evans	Pentax DSLR Discussion	2	12-25-2009 10:04 PM
DxO will support K-7	robgo2	Pentax News and Rumors	54	07-19-2009 09:20 PM

11-07-2010, 04:56 PM	#2
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Moved to P&R since this will inevitably turn into a political discussion. To all who respond. This is likely to get very passionate so please remember to keep things on an adult and civil level. Mike PF Moderation Team

11-07-2010, 05:10 PM	#3
larryinlc Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Wisconsin USA Posts: 993 Original Poster	I would never intend to cause civil unrest in the Pentax Forum, so delete the thread if you think it would cause problems. My intention was to point out other issues in our country we face that need our support. We live in a big country with many problems, but I think we're too one dimensional in our focus at times. Believe me, I support the troops, but there are always other fires burning that seem to go unnoticed. Larry

11-07-2010, 05:54 PM	#4
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	My concern with blind support for our troops is that by extension we are blindly supporting what they are doing. Now, if what they are doing is both legal and just, then I have no problems, but when what they are doing is essentially a criminal war of aggression with another country, they don't deserve our support, and instead what we should be doing is protesting what they are doing. Consequently, I don't support the war in Iraq (and neither does my government), and I am very ambivalent about the ongoing incursion in Afghanistan, especially since it is doomed to fail, and has been that way since it began.

11-12-2010, 03:13 AM	#5
zelovoc Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Kosice Posts: 80	Because you are an empire. For some parts of world an evil empire. so support your army, support their crimes and don`t be surprised if you will be hated around the globe. And to be honest, your soldiers are only slaves of your politicians. and to be honest again, i hate your politicians for what they have done to a once great country like USA was.

11-12-2010, 05:23 AM	#6
Oldschool Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 1,278	Gee zelovoc, it's great hearing from you. I look forward to hearing more of your deep thoughts.

11-12-2010, 05:43 AM - 1 Like	#7
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	The USA... the Evil Empire that you love to get aid from.... Maybe it's time to stop sending billions of dollars overseas whenever there is some natural or man-made disaster? God knows we could put all that money to good use here helping our own people... Heck perhaps we could even buy ourselves back from China.

11-12-2010, 09:13 AM	#8
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by MRRiley The USA... the Evil Empire that you love to get aid from.... Maybe it's time to stop sending billions of dollars overseas whenever there is some natural or man-made disaster? God knows we could put all that money to good use here helping our own people... Heck perhaps we could even buy ourselves back from China. That would probably be a good idea (buying yourselves back from China), since at some point doing otherwise will impede your ability to show such largess. Anyway, when what you are saying comes up I am always reminded of a neighbor we once had. He seemed a decent guy for the most part, and certainly provided well for his family, but he had a very violent temper. At some point he turned that temper onto his wife and put her in the hospital, at which time he was no longer the decent guy who made 100K a year and had the best Halloween treats, he was the wife beating dickhead who no one liked. International aid is well and good, but all the good in the world doesn't go very far compared to the mess your politicians have made in Afghanistan, Iraq, and pretty much the entire Middle East, which is now far less stable than it has ever been before. Save a few thousand lives after an earthquake somewhere, kill a few hundred thousand in an illegal war of aggression somewhere else. The balance of the scales tips heavily towards the wrong side.

11-12-2010, 09:49 AM	#9
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Wheatfield That would probably be a good idea (buying yourselves back from China), since at some point doing otherwise will impede your ability to show such largess. Anyway, when what you are saying comes up I am always reminded of a neighbor we once had. He seemed a decent guy for the most part, and certainly provided well for his family, but he had a very violent temper. At some point he turned that temper onto his wife and put her in the hospital, at which time he was no longer the decent guy who made 100K a year and had the best Halloween treats, he was the wife beating dickhead who no one liked. International aid is well and good, but all the good in the world doesn't go very far compared to the mess your politicians have made in Afghanistan, Iraq, and pretty much the entire Middle East, which is now far less stable than it has ever been before. Save a few thousand lives after an earthquake somewhere, kill a few hundred thousand in an illegal war of aggression somewhere else. The balance of the scales tips heavily towards the wrong side. You're really staring to tick me off, Bill! In the interest of me maintaining a blood pressure range that is compatible with life; would you mind terribly much posting something that I can argue with? I love to argue, and you and Ben are really letting me down lately. I'm 70/30 on the "illegal war of aggression" part, but the rest just isn't cutting it.

11-12-2010, 11:50 AM	#10
Phil1 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,292	Supporting troops isn't supporting some a hole politician or policy. I had occasion to buy a couple of Marines in class As breakfast on Veterans Day this week. I did it anonymously and it really felt good on a personal basis. I am certain they felt appreciated in a small way. They were probably on thier way to do some ceremony duty while most gov't emplyees had the day off. I am certain that the guys make about 1/12th the pay that the average Washington DC puke on the dole makes and that would be for 24/7 service as needed. Respect and support for military is not in lieu of any other respect or support for anything or other matters that turn your crank. The Star Spangled Banner for the druggies in the street would probably find me sitting the music out. But hey, that's just me, you can stand with your hat on and your hands in your pocket or finger in the nose if you want too.

11-12-2010, 12:01 PM	#11
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Phil1 .......... The Star Spangled Banner for the druggies in the street ............. The entertainment industry has a version of that for their own, sort of. It's the only group I know of where getting hooked on drugs and/or booze and then recovering makes somebody a hero (the more times you repeat the cycle, the more revered you are), but those who don't ever use drugs are just mere mortals.

11-12-2010, 12:49 PM	#12
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by Wheatfield That would probably be a good idea (buying yourselves back from China), since at some point doing otherwise will impede your ability to show such largess. Anyway, when what you are saying comes up I am always reminded of a neighbor we once had. He seemed a decent guy for the most part, and certainly provided well for his family, but he had a very violent temper. At some point he turned that temper onto his wife and put her in the hospital, at which time he was no longer the decent guy who made 100K a year and had the best Halloween treats, he was the wife beating dickhead who no one liked. International aid is well and good, but all the good in the world doesn't go very far compared to the mess your politicians have made in Afghanistan, Iraq, and pretty much the entire Middle East, which is now far less stable than it has ever been before. Save a few thousand lives after an earthquake somewhere, kill a few hundred thousand in an illegal war of aggression somewhere else. The balance of the scales tips heavily towards the wrong side. Bill, no arguments about the mess in the middle east... We've made part of it to be sure, but we didn't start it down that road... YOUR empire and the rest of the old world empires did that. And all in all the people living in the middle east have done their best to muck it up even worse and would cheerfully go on doing so even if the rest of the world were to disappear tomorrow. America's biggest problem is that most of our citizens sincerely want to help the rest of the world live better and longer lives but by the time those desires perculate up to our policy makers things get all tied up in power balances, alliances, adversaries, politics and greed. It also doesn't matter which party is in charge. They both have their own ways of screwing things up and I distrust them all equally. Mike

11-12-2010, 01:03 PM	#13
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	There'll always be need - and everyone does it tough in all kinds of ways. In what we support though, we foster a culture of patriotism and loyalty to the troops, particularly for the kids to learn about and follow suit... It's easier to take the time to think about the fellow countrymen serving in the military, who we can relate more to, than the poor, afflicted and sick souls in some far-away foreign land. [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro6I0Z7FXUU[/yt]

11-12-2010, 11:58 PM	#14
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by MRRiley Bill, no arguments about the mess in the middle east... We've made part of it to be sure, but we didn't start it down that road... YOUR empire and the rest of the old world empires did that. And all in all the people living in the middle east have done their best to muck it up even worse and would cheerfully go on doing so even if the rest of the world were to disappear tomorrow. America's biggest problem is that most of our citizens sincerely want to help the rest of the world live better and longer lives but by the time those desires perculate up to our policy makers things get all tied up in power balances, alliances, adversaries, politics and greed. It also doesn't matter which party is in charge. They both have their own ways of screwing things up and I distrust them all equally. Mike Har, I didn't realize the Scottish Empire had that much clout. Seriously Mike, my conscience is clear on that front.

11-13-2010, 05:28 AM	#15
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Well, what I was referring to was the venerable British Empire, of which Canada (and Scotland I believe) is still a nominal part what with recognizing the queen as your sovereign. The point is, the USA isn't alone in making messes over there, nor are we solely responsible for the current mess.