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11-11-2010, 01:49 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
No, I am not interested, in either the book, a facebook group, or what it is that you do with your personal accounts.
You see, when you want, you can make your own point without being offensive to people.

I said "If you are interested" which means if you are not, that's OK.

11-11-2010, 01:53 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
Uh, yeah that's usually what a scrotum is.

Miguel, if you think that is a personal attack, you need to do more than lighten up.
Don't worry, I didn't think so, and I even found your joke funny
11-11-2010, 01:55 PM   #18
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Well, my take on it is this. First, such a book actually illegal to sell or produce in this country anyway. It would likely be considered child porn and as such Amazon US could actually face criminal charges for selling it. Second, just an FYI, you can list ANYTHING on Amazon, but that doesn't mean they won't see it and pull it shortly thereafter, which is what they did. Third, for all you people fussing and threatening to close your account over items with adult content. You do realize that Amazon sells practically everything from adult sex toys to porno XXX "Lolita" graphic novels from Japan that have pretty much the same content as this book probably did, and likely even worse.

I think they were right to get rid of it if only because it could cause major legal problems for them actually selling that guide, but I don't blame Amazon for it being listed. All you have to do is look at Ebay and all the illegal stuff they have to yank all the time because some idiot thinks it's" cute" to try to sell something that will cause a controversy to see why this person likely tried to publish this book on Amazon.

It was an e-book, and self-published, probably because the guy knew he'd never have a chance in heck of getting it published elsewhere. Now of course because of all the free publicity all the perverts out there know what the book's title is, and they'll likely line up in droves to be able to dl it for free via torrent or wherever. This guy's "job" is done now though courtesy of all the people who just HAD to make a major fuss before Amazon actually found it and removed it.His book will now be widely distributed which is the exact opposite of what anyone protesting would want. So, who's to blame? Not Amazon, surely.
11-11-2010, 02:09 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
First, such a book [is] actually illegal to sell or produce in this country anyway. It would likely be considered child porn and as such Amazon US could actually face criminal charges for selling it.
Well, that's simply not true:

If it doesn't have photographs, you can write anything you want about an 80-year-old man having sex with his 10-year-old great-granddaughter, and thank God the Constitution protects that.

Where did you get the idea that this is illegal?

The written word can NEVER be illegal, and this is even proven to be the case for people who post instructions on building a nuclear weapon.

11-11-2010, 02:10 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Well, my take on it is this. First, such a book actually illegal to sell or produce in this country anyway. It would likely be considered child porn and as such Amazon US could actually face criminal charges for selling it. Second, just an FYI, you can list ANYTHING on Amazon, but that doesn't mean they won't see it and pull it shortly thereafter, which is what they did. Third, for all you people fussing and threatening to close your account over items with adult content. You do realize that Amazon sells practically everything from adult sex toys to porno XXX "Lolita" graphic novels from Japan that have pretty much the same content as this book probably did, and likely even worse.

I think they were right to get rid of it if only because it could cause major legal problems for them actually selling that guide, but I don't blame Amazon for it being listed. All you have to do is look at Ebay and all the illegal stuff they have to yank all the time because some idiot thinks it's" cute" to try to sell something that will cause a controversy to see why this person likely tried to publish this book on Amazon.

It was an e-book, and self-published, probably because the guy knew he'd never have a chance in heck of getting it published elsewhere. Now of course because of all the free publicity all the perverts out there know what the book's title is, and they'll likely line up in droves to be able to dl it for free via torrent or wherever. This guy's "job" is done now though courtesy of all the people who just HAD to make a major fuss before Amazon actually found it and removed it.His book will now be widely distributed which is the exact opposite of what anyone protesting would want. So, who's to blame? Not Amazon, surely.
Great post! Everything is said there.
11-11-2010, 02:17 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel AB Quote
Again, I am not against freedom of speech.
If this guide was just a sexual content book for adults, I wouldn't care.
But Miguel--you ARE against freedom of speech. Your actions in this case prove that.

And do you understand that this isn't about what YOU care about, as your above comment on a sexual content book for adults clearly emphasizes what your priorities are?

And those priorities are what you like and agree with?

There's a reason we give permits for American Nazis to march. A reason I can burn the American flag. And a reason I can go to Washington and hold up a sign that says, "Bush Sucks!"

Once you start drawing lines in the sand regarding freedom of speech, it's real easy to move that line. And that line moves depending on who's in power and what's popular.

To defend freedom of speech, you have to defend the WORST of it. Otherwise, you're not defending it at all.
11-11-2010, 02:18 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel AB Quote
Great post! Everything is said there.
But it's not accurate.

No laws were broken.

11-11-2010, 02:32 PM   #23
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This is not a Freedom of Speech issue! In the end it is completely and totally up to Amazon whether they allow the book to be sold on their service or not. If they chose not to let it be sold then they have not violated the pedophile author's 1st Amendment Rights. As a private corporation, and not a governmental agency, the 1st amendment does not apply to them. I'd be willing to bet that their "terms of service" actually allow them to refuse to sell pretty much anything they don't want to sell. Those same "terms of service" likely also absolve them of any liability for whatever their customers sell.

Pulling this "book" was inevitable, particularly once word got out and the protests began. Their only recourse was to pull it since they faced economic losses if they chose to continue selling it and risked little if anything, if they refused to sell it. And, even if the author chose to try to sue them he would be extremely unlikely to collect a penny since all Amazon would have to do is to pull out the terms of service that he agreed to in order to list the book.

Last edited by MRRiley; 11-11-2010 at 02:41 PM.
11-11-2010, 02:38 PM   #24
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As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I'd burn every ****ing copy, the author, and anyone who bought it. But that's just my view.

Have a look at the bookshelf of the rapist that grooms your child, and then tell me that that it's ok to sell a book like that on the open market?
11-11-2010, 03:29 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
But Miguel--you ARE against freedom of speech. Your actions in this case prove that.

And do you understand that this isn't about what YOU care about, as your above comment on a sexual content book for adults clearly emphasizes what your priorities are?

And those priorities are what you like and agree with?

There's a reason we give permits for American Nazis to march. A reason I can burn the American flag. And a reason I can go to Washington and hold up a sign that says, "Bush Sucks!"

Once you start drawing lines in the sand regarding freedom of speech, it's real easy to move that line. And that line moves depending on who's in power and what's popular.

To defend freedom of speech, you have to defend the WORST of it. Otherwise, you're not defending it at all.
Even if I truly understand your point about the freedom of speech, I can't agree with it: we are humans, we have a brain, we should be able to make the difference without defending the worse to keep our freedom of speech.
In some countries like Yemen, man can be married to a 8 year old girl: there it is possible and here it would be prohibited and considered as pedophilia.
So, because it is clear in the mentality of occidental countries that pedophilia is wrong, no need to talk 100 years about our freedom of speech.
Amazon is on US territory where pedophilia is prohibited. Books making apologia of pedophilia should be prohibited.

Last edited by Miguel AB; 11-11-2010 at 03:35 PM.
11-11-2010, 06:07 PM   #26
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I wonder how this dicussion and it's subject would play out if someone had published a book : Leave No Evidence - A Guide to Identify , Hunt and Dispatch Members of NAMBLA.
Freedom of speach?
Freedom to market and sell?
Responsabillity of author / publisher when individuals acted upon the information presented?

Last edited by seacapt; 11-12-2010 at 04:52 PM.
11-11-2010, 07:23 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
I wonder how this dicussion and it's subject would play out if someone had published a book : Leave No Evidence - A Guide to Identify , Hunt and Dispatch Members of NMBLA.
Freedom of speach?
Freedom to market and sell?
Responsabillity of author / publisher when individuals acted upon the information presented?
The difference is that we are not talking about an "if someone had published a book", but about a real published book in 2010.
In answering the same way you just did, let's suppose that a pedophiles guide was targeting one of your child or children if you are a father or any child of your family, would you still consider the freedom of speech for the author?
Freedom to market and sell?
Responsibility of author / publisher when individuals acted upon the information presented?
For me this is clear: in both cases, nothing can justify a book which its only goal is to hurt another human.

Last edited by Miguel AB; 11-11-2010 at 07:30 PM.
11-11-2010, 11:53 PM   #28
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And again it's back: law vs morals...
Each to their own regarding their own values and ethics, but if the law says there's nothing wrong with something, doesn't mean it's right....

'God' is not behind the Constitution that protects mentally disturbed individuals who haven't yet been caught doing anything illegal but are free to publicly share how we can procure child sex and make it abhorrently enjoyable, Ira. People are.
11-12-2010, 04:20 AM   #29
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Again... this is not a Freedom of Speech issue!!! It is not the government telling him he cannot produce this material. The author, regardless of how sick I think he is, is perfectly free to write his book and distribute or sell it.

However, Amazon, as a non-governmental entity, is also completely free to refuse to allow it to be sold via their service.

This is no different from Walmart refusing to sell Playboy magazine. As a private entity, they are generally free to sell or not sell whatever they wish.

Mike

p.s. Although writing and distributing this material is technically "legal" I suspect it will put him under the microscope of several law enforcement agencies who will be looking for evidence that he actually practiced or practices any of the activities described in his book. Personally I hope they catch him and string him up by his private parts.

Last edited by MRRiley; 11-12-2010 at 04:29 AM.
11-12-2010, 04:56 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Although writing and distributing this material is technically "legal" I suspect it will put him under the microscope of several law enforcement agencies who will be looking for evidence that he actually practiced or practices any of the activities described in his book. Personally I hope they catch him and string him up by his private parts.
Yup , I agree with you there Mike. Too bad the buyers list will be confidential.
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