[causey]

At least sell it as a second hand/refurbish deparment then. Don't charge us base on a brand new item, as this practice is misleading. Definitely the lens serial database will be handy in this case.

Everybody does it. That's why they give specific instructions concerning returns" the product has to look new... At least Henry admitted it--although indirectly. Which isn't to say I agree with this practice. My next purchase is going to be in a B&M store, and I will ask the seller to give me a brand new product. Otherwise, what's the point of buying new when there's the PF marketplace?

[wlachan]

I think that's the price to pay when retailers accept non-defective returns, not that I agree with it because consumers should be responsible for their own actions. In many Asians countries, returns are allowed only when defective (and not caused by the customers).

[sebberry]

Everybody does it. That's why they give specific instructions concerning returns" the product has to look new... At least Henry admitted it--although indirectly. Which isn't to say I agree with this practice. My next purchase is going to be in a B&M store, and I will ask the seller to give me a brand new product. Otherwise, what's the point of buying new when there's the PF marketplace?

How are you going to make sure it is a brand new product? Take it out of the package and look? And if you don't like it and decide to not buy it, the retailer has to take a hit when they do sell it because the box has been opened.

I don't think I have had one thing from Pentax with a factory sealed box. Short of that, there's no way to know.

Customers want to be able to look at a product before they buy it.

When I bought my FA50/1.4 the salesman opened the box and mounted it to a demo camera.

If I didn't buy it, should the retailer take a hit on the price?

[sebberry]

I think that's the price to pay when retailers accept non-defective returns, not that I agree with it because consumers should be responsible for their own actions. In many Asians countries, returns are allowed only when defective (and not caused by the customers).

I'm assuming that you'd be ok being charged a 10% restocking fee if you took something back after deciding you don't want it?

[causey]

I think that's the price to pay when retailers accept non-defective returns, not that I agree with it because consumers should be responsible for their own actions. In many Asians countries, returns are allowed only when defective (and not caused by the customers).

The problem is this practice is not done in the open. Even if explicitly asked about it, store representatives deny it. (Henry made an exceptional exception.) If people knew about it, they would likely be willing to pay more just for the peace of mind of knowing they get a brand new item for their money.

[causey]

When I bought my FA50/1.4 the salesman opened the box and mounted it to a demo camera.

If I didn't buy it, should the retailer take a hit on the price?

Why did he have to mount it on a demo camera?

[twitch]

A store has:
1) Low price
2) Generous Return Policy
3) Never sells opened/returned goods as brand new

Pick any 2. People are being very unrealistic think that all 3 are possible.

[HUYSTA]

In Australia, most store here don't offer returns/refund unless if it has a manufacturer defect. Change of mind or dissatisfied with the product for any particular reasons will be at the store discretion and a lot of the online store will take 5-30% restocking fees if they do take it back.

I'm cool with that and I believe if you going to order online, it is common sense for you to do your research beforehand on that particular product. You pay a price if you don't, that is fair enough.

I ordered from B&H photo base on 3 main reasons:

1) Price
2) Recommendation
3) Orders are processed efficiently with fast delivery (maybe with the help of USPS)

I don't expect to use their "Generous Return Policy" as I live in Australia, it is quite a far distance if I have to send it back, therefore won't be economical if I have to pay for freight of Sending + pay for freight if I want the exchange/replacement item to be re-sent back to me . So the "Generous Return Policy" is not for my advantages in this case. Maybe it even have the worst effect in my case, as maybe of their "Generous Return Policy", I now have to send the lens back because someone may have abuse that service before me?

Stores have demo stock, as such use that stock to demo it to their customer. So there's no excuse for taking brand new stock each time to show it to their customer. If the demo stock is no longer needed because the item has been discontinue or for whatever reason, then sell it as a demo price. When I go to a reputable store, I would not think to ask for a brand new product as that should of been my automatic right to get a brand new product.

Unfortunately B&H have taught me a lesson, because even as good and reputable store like they are. They can still be very unreasonable!

As in my particular case, they will not offer any help with the freight charge of sending the item back and sending out the replacement. Ultimately, I have to ask B&H Photo is it fair for me or for anyone that maybe in the same situation to pay that price?

[aleonx3]

I think that's the price to pay when retailers accept non-defective returns, not that I agree with it because consumers should be responsible for their own actions. In many Asians countries, returns are allowed only when defective (and not caused by the customers).

Yes, in Asia and most other parts of the world; this is expected, that consumers have to take some responsibility for their actions - not just the stores. The chance of getting a "used" item for new-item price is rare.

I don't expect to use their "Generous Return Policy" as I live in Australia, it is quite a far distance if I have to send it back, therefore won't be economical if I have to pay for freight of Sending + pay for freight if I want the exchange/replacement item to be re-sent back to me . So the "Generous Return Policy" is not for my advantages in this case. Maybe it even have the worst effect in my case, as maybe of their "Generous Return Policy", I now have to send the lens back because someone may have abuse that service before me?

Stores have demo stock, as such use that stock to demo it to their customer. So there's no excuse for taking brand new stock each time to show it to their customer. If the demo stock is no longer needed because the item has been discontinue or for whatever reason, then sell it as a demo price. When I go to a reputable store, I would not think to ask for a brand new product as that should of been my automatic right to get a brand new product.

Here in NA, I have seen so many people exploiting on the "generous return policy" that the chance of getting a "used" item instead of "new" item is very high. Some stores even shrink-wrap used items to make it look like brand new. Some people even use this to get one-time use of equipment without having to rent one. Sad but true...

[sebberry]

Why did he have to mount it on a demo camera?

Because I didn't have my K10D with me and there was a K20D out as a demo. I hadn't used the lens before so I got to see what it would be like on an almost identical body.

He was very helpful, let me take some test shots and I bought it. Had I decided it wasn't for me, the lens would have gone back in the box and someone else would have had a chance to buy it.

I'd feel like a cheap prick asking for a price reduction just because someone else might have gone through the same "try before you buy" process.

[causey]

Because I didn't have my K10D with me and there was a K20D out as a demo. I hadn't used the lens before so I got to see what it would be like on an almost identical body.

He was very helpful, let me take some test shots and I bought it. Had I decided it wasn't for me, the lens would have gone back in the box and someone else would have had a chance to buy it.

I'd feel like a cheap prick asking for a price reduction just because someone else might have gone through the same "try before you buy" process.

Would you have got the demo too, if you had wanted to buy a camera? And would someone who expected to get a brand new lens when buying one presented as brand new be a cheap prick?

[causey]

Another thing: suppose that someone gets a lens from an online store and notices a slight de-centering or front-focusing issue. The store has a 'generous return policy', and they ask the customer to return the lens in the original package 'as new'. What do you think the store is going to do next? There's a very fine line between what is a defective item and what stores consider to be an ok item.

I'd like to know which U.S. retailer of photo equipment sells only new stuff as new. But I'm convinced even those that retain a restocking fee are into the practice of selling returned items as new.

[sebberry]

You've also got to ask yourself what constitutes it being used or a demo.

A body sitting on display on the shelf for months with customers playing with it? Definately a used demo that I would want some price break on.

A lens that might have been out of the box once or twice? Not really much of a demo.

I would want a price break to compensate for the shortened longevity of the product if the prior use of the item had an impact on it's expected longevity or if some parts were missing, etc...

In all the years I have been in retail I can't say I have ever had a customer return something due to a smudge on it. and I can tell you that when it comes to electronics, not everything is free of smudges or dust.

[causey]

In all the years I have been in retail I can't say I have ever had a customer return something due to a smudge on it. and I can tell you that when it comes to electronics, not everything is free of smudges or dust.

No, usually customers return lenses with issues, but if they look 'brand new', the stores would try to sell them to someone else. That's why, when I see the carton inside the box has been ripped I know I can expect at least some minor defect. Like the slight decentering of my 16-45mm, which I noticed after the return period expired.

Sometimes, some customers just want to play with, say, the DA 15mm--they get it, carefully use it for 30 days and return it. Isn't it a kind of demo? This isn't honest practice. What retailers actually do is to increase their sales by offering a generous return policy thus encouraging irresponsible customer behavior at the expense of the more serious buyers.

[twitch]

My DA15 came "brand new" with a rip in the box lid. I tested the lens though and could not detect a problem with focusing or decentering, so who knows what the history of the lens is.