[deadwolfbones]

I don't either, but my wife does!

[GeneV]

Like that DSLR, marriage may need a firmware update, but it is not obsolete IMHO.

[MRRiley]

A true commitment can be real with or without the piece of paper. A piece of paper doesn't make a relationship or a family happen. People do.

And you are 100% right here... Many unmarried people are better at relationships than many married people are... and if that makes sense for you go for it... but I hope you never have to argue with your partner's family over health care decisions when he is in the hospital in critical condition. They will be heard. You will not. I hope you are never denied access to your partner's son's school records because the school system doesn't recognize you as a legal guardian... or any number of issues that 'married" people get by virtue of a little piece of paper...

[Capslock118]

I am close friends with a couple who got pregnant while they were engaged then decided to postpone their wedding indefinitely because as a single mother she would qualify for the hat trick mentioned above but as a married couple they would not. Neither of them are high income but their combined income would be enough to disqualify them for all government aid and put them comfortably above median US household income. They are still living together and their son is 4 and they are expecting another baby soon. If you were planning a party and asked her/him, "will your husband/wife be attending," they would respond yes even though they are not legally married. The only way I ever see them getting married is if the dude gets a better job where he can give them better insurance and afford to buy a home.

We just had a baby ourselves and we are not married. We have been living together for the past 5 years though. My significant other has been unemployed for the past year so we decided, especially with the cost of my insurance, that it would make sense for our baby to go onto husky. Husky specifically asks for household income, as well as every other form I've ever signed. Household income applies to both of our incomes regardless that we are married.

After all was said and done our baby was not qualified for the free husky health insurance, though he would have been had I not been living in the same house. Because of my income and my significant others income (unemployment) combined, our baby was qualified for the husky insurance that anyone can get regardless of income. It's $195 per month and still cheaper than the insurance my company offers for the family plan.

My point is, as far as my perspect, regardless of if we get married or not, I don't think we are going to see much of a benefit as far as government subsidies. I don't even make that much.

From what I've seen far too many people enter into that state with completely unrealistic expectations, a half-hearted commitment to each other and almost no willingness to work out anything that requires any real effort.

That's why I was firm on waiting for 5 years (there was resistence to this timer from both families; i could care less what others thought though), living with my fiencee for 4 years, before ASKING her to marry me. And at the rate we have been going it looks like it will be a year from that date before we actually get married; so actually a total of 6 years with each other and 5 years living together before we get married.

The idea of marrying someone without agreeing on foundational issues is such an odd and foreign concept to me. Also the idea of moving in together after marriage? you're just asking for trouble. how do you really know someone until these points have been tackled?

foundational issues being:
-kids (yes no how many)
-location (where do you WANT to live? are you able to move if I have to for a job? would i do the same?)
-budgets - can our lives come together and comfortably afford to do so? what sacrafices are we willing to make?
-political views - (compliment or polar opposites, if polar opposites - does that work for you?)
-life goals (do they conflict or compliment?)
-pets (yes no how many, types)
-leisure activites (compliment or polar opposites?)

A true commitment can be real with or without the piece of paper. A piece of paper doesn't make a relationship or a family happen. People do.

Funny that, i've been considered family to my fincees side since we moved in together. My family won't consider her part of the family until we are married...

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Last edited by Capslock118; 11-19-2010 at 11:29 AM.

[mikemike]

I can see it as a necessity in certain circumstances. Say if you and your partner are from two different countries and one or the other has to make a permanent move to make the relationship happen. Legally that kind of thing is a lot easier if you are married. Dealing with insurance companies, ditto. But otherwise I don't think so.

I think if you own major assets like a house or retirement accounts it is also critical to get married. But if the man's only "asset" is the ability to work it is advantageous for a woman to remain unmarried since they can sue for child support anyway. The other case would be if there is a financial dependence since divorce, as messy as it is, gives you an opportunity for spousal support.

Marriage is definitely becoming an option for financially independent women, a risk for financially independent men, a liability for government dependents, and an obstacle course for gays.

Unless there is a "firmware update" to address these forces, all of which seem to be operating somewhat independently from my POV, marriage will become an elitist institution.

We just had a baby ourselves and we are not married. We have been living together for the past 5 years though. My significant other has been unemployed for the past year so we decided, especially with the cost of my insurance, that it would make sense for our baby to go onto husky. Husky specifically asks for household income, as well as every other form I've ever signed. Household income applies to both of our incomes regardless that we are married.

It seems some states have their social services locked down a little tighter than others... Of course it isn't that hard to not officially live together by having one person file taxes at their parent's address.

[GeneV]

Housing assistance is based on the income of the adults living in the dwelling, regardless of a marriage certificate. I see relatively few advantages or disadvantages to marriage in terms of my state's assistance programs.

Having recently completed an unexpected hospital stay after an accident during which my (wonderful) wife was my healthcare advocate, I can say that the institution had immense value to me. I don't think that I would be feeling well and back at the office this quickly had I been single, with no one to deal with my doctors early on without rummaging through my papers to find a power of attorney.

[Rick Clark]

Hey Gene glad your doing good now sometimes it take a good lady to pull you through.

[GeneV]

Hey Gene glad your doing good now sometimes it take a good lady to pull you through.

Thanks. It takes a life partner who can (legally) talk to the doctors and make decisions. That's where marriage helped.

[stevebrot]

Is marriage obsolete?

I am doing my best to be a trend-setter and have managed to avoid the institution since my ex dumped me some 22 years ago


Steve

[Gooshin]

A Brave New World..

could work...

:ugh:

[Parallax]

Stay single, and raise your kids to do the same.

[Hambino]

Its just going to get worse as more kids grow up in single parent households with different men coming and going.

how about with different women coming and going from a single father's home? or is it just the single mother's who possibly have partners "coming and going"? Most single parents go out of there way to keep their partners away from their children until they know that person is going to be around for some time.

*edit* - maybe you're more progressive than I think you are and when you say "men coming and going" you're actually referring to gay couples that had adopted during their relationship and then split up...but in that case, I guess you still leave the lesbian couples out and either way someone's not being accounted for

Anywho, legal marriage just doesn't make sense to me except if you need the benefits that come along with marriage (health care, etc.). However, the company I work for recognizes domestic partnership and you can sign your partner (same- or opposite-sex) onto your health insurance if you've lived together for six months and have had a joint bank account for the same amount of time. I could also easily sign my partner up as my beneficiary on any number of different things (I actually have it split between 3 different people now so no one person sees me as worth more dead than alive ha!) including my 401k and death benefits. It was the same way at my last company. *shrugs*

[Gooshin]

marriage and kids are two different things...

who says you have to be in a man/woman life long partnership to raise a child right?

likewise, why not marry and never have kids?

[newarts]

There is confusion over the meaning of marriage; is it the state certified meaning or the publically committed meaning, or the religious one?

I think committed life partnerships, whether officially recorded by the state or a church, with or without children, will be common for a long time. It seems built into us as a species.

Secular and religious law is having a difficult time keeping up with the public's tolerance of non-traditional (hidden in the past) life partnerships, childless or not. Nevertheless, people persist in more or less publically establishing such partnerships both within and without secular and religious law; practice is leading law.

I think there is overwhelming evidence that adults mostly prefer a cohabiting life partnership situation to being alone and most (but far from all) of those partnerships are heterosexual. Further, such partnerships, either hetero- or homosexual, with or without children, are important to a stable society.

Might it be that many of the social problems in our poorer communities are a result of laws that have the practical effect of economically discouraging formal or informal marriage? The fall-back arrangement seems to often involve heavy interdependence with one's mother.

Any anthropologists/sociologists here 'bouts?

Dave

PS I've been alone for almost a full year and dearly miss having a partner's presence. I doubt my discomfort is just a reaction to a change of habit.

[pickles]

NO.
Cheers, Pickles.