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11-28-2010, 05:54 PM   #1
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Since it soon will be the "rage" Wikileaks

It will be VERY interesting to see what comes out........
you can vote here for or against......
msnbc.com - Do you support the release of secret U.S. diplomatic correspondence by WikiLeaks?
Let's start w/ the "spin doctors"
WikiLeaks Drop Shows U.S. Striving to Maintain Order in Chaotic Global Relations - FoxNews.com
QuoteQuote:
WikiLeaks Drop Shows U.S. Striving to Maintain Order in Chaotic Global Relations
now the more fun stuff.........
see the Saudi's are our friends (why they don't do it is a good question)

Saudi king urged U.S. to attack Iran: WikiLeaks | Reuters
QuoteQuote:
Saudi King Abdullah has repeatedly urged the United States to attack Iran's nuclear program and China directed cyberattacks on the United States, according to a vast cache of U.S. diplomatic cables released on Sunday in an embarrassing leak that undermines U.S. diplomacy.
So far nothing really shocking.... but the dump is young.
As to the cyberattack of wikileaks... well I guess it's only fair... hacker to hacker......
As to the "legal issues"..... this pretty much sums it up:
QuoteQuote:
Though inconvenient for officials, the revelation of information contained in any of the WikiLeaks files, much like the Pentagon Papers amid the Vietnam war, is crucial to maintaining an enlightened public -- a point the US Supreme Court made abundantly clear in New York Times Co. v. United States in 1971.

"In seeking injunctions against these newspapers and in its presentation to the Court, the Executive Branch seems to have forgotten the essential purpose and history of the First Amendment," Justices Hugo Black and William Douglas wrote, taking the side of the Times, which had recently published what was then considered the largest cache of secret military information in US history.

"In the First Amendment the Founding Fathers gave the free press the protection it must have to fulfill its essential role in our democracy," they continued. "The press was to serve the governed, not the governors. The Government's power to censor the press was abolished so that the press would remain forever free to censure the Government. The press was protected so that it could bare the secrets of government and inform the people. Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government."

After the release of the Pentagon Papers, Justices Black and Douglas opined that "newspapers nobly did precisely that which the Founders hoped and trusted they would do."

According to Daniel Ellsberg, the man responsible for leaking the Pentagon Papers, WikiLeaks has done just the same.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/gop-rep-wikileaks-deemed-foreign-terrorist-organization/
As to save me typing.....
QuoteQuote:
The Wikileaks story is great fun. The embarrassment of others always is. But however much the Guardian, the New York Times and Julian Assange assure us that this represents a shattering blow to every assumption we hold about foreign relations, the fact remains that it’s a collection of little substance that will do nothing to reshape geo-politics. The Saudis would like someone to whack Iran? No kidding. Afghanistan is run by crooks? Really? Hillary Clinton would like to know a lot more about the diplomats she is negotiating against? You surprise me. The Russian government may have links to organised crime? Pass the smelling salts, Petunia. The Americans are secretly whacking al-Qaeda operatives in Yemen? What, you thought the Yemenis were doing it? Muammar Qaddafi has a full time, pneumatic Ukrainian ‘nurse’? Nice one. Diplomats are terrified of Pakistan’s nukes? Me too. And so on, ad infinite boredom. Perhaps something better will pop up, but nothing I’ve read since last night’s surprises.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100065758/wikileaks-is-emba...t-not-serious/
One more on the mideast stuff.......
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=197119
QuoteQuote:
If Hamas took over in the West Bank, Dagan said, PA President Mahmoud Abbas would likely move to Qatar and join his “mysteriously wealthy” son there.

Moving on to Iran, Dagan was strangely optimistic, the cable said, that sanctions could have an effect. He said during the meeting that Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states all feared Iran, but wanted someone else “to do the job for them.”

The Mossad director accused Saudi Foreign Minister Saud bin Faisal of playing a “very negative role” and characterized Qatar as “a real problem,” accusing its leader Sheikh Hamid bin Khalifa al-Thani of “annoying everyone.”

He then told Townsend that, in his view, the US should pull its bases out of the country.

The US Central Command (CENTCOM) has a major base in Qatar.

“I think you should remove your bases from there...seriously,” Dagan said. “They have confidence only because of the US presence.”

Dagan added that Al-Jazeera could cause the next war in the Middle East, since Arab leaders, specifically in Saudi Arabia, hold the Qatari leader personally responsible for the cable station’s so-called provocations.

Dagan was particularly harsh regarding Moroccan King Mohammed VI, who he said had little interest in governing his country.
good thing to live in a country where all we have to really worry about is tax breaks for millionaires....
just tid bits.......
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/john-kampfner-wikileaks-sh...y-2146211.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/americas-offensive-diplomacy-2146208.html
QuoteQuote:
In an indication of how concerned he is about US retaliation, the Australian-born campaigner told delegates he was appearing via videolink because "Jordan's not the best place to be with the CIA on your tail".
Interesting background:
http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2010/08/30/wikileaks-servers-move-to-u...uclear-bunker/
QuoteQuote:
Here’s a video tour from the IT organization Data Center Pulse filmed in 2008, showing a super-secure facility it describes as worthy of “a James Bond villain.”



Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-28-2010 at 06:27 PM.
11-28-2010, 08:00 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
it describes as worthy of “a James Bond villain.”
Maybe he is..striking fear into the rightfull heart of our kind moral leaders XD.

We'll see what comes out of all this..i suspect that nothing very encouraging..If the discovery of CIA's Operation Chaos and FBI's COINTELPRO did not stop government from spying us (through internet control, and mobile phone comunications control for example) i don't see why it would stop trying to prevent things like wikileaks from existing, why it wouldn't trie to tie the press, and everyone else for all that matters...

The leaks are important because they prove that those "secrets" are undeniable, that all those things we all know are not paranoia or propaganda..and finally that we are governed by people that are very far, VERY far from the image they give to themselves.
Hope one day we'll come out of the cinism and decide to eliminate the roots of what keep us under the control, direction and government of the people who cause all those unsufferable situations.

(gotta repeat myself..hope there were more Tyler Durdens around XD
It's gonna be chosing between 1984 or the hunter gatherer world he imagines
11-28-2010, 09:25 PM   #3
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The poor boy who gave wikileaks all this stuff.. They are gonna bring him up on treason here soon!

I am not entirely convinced what wikileaks does is good. I'm not really opposed to it either. I think what scares me the most is all of this coming out and in such a fast manner..

One wonders what is really left to release??
11-28-2010, 10:03 PM   #4
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Oh, there's always left to release:P
There's no way they can prove who released the documents (you can see wikileaks sources policy and the way they endorse it..) unless that person was careless (looking at the nature of the documents i doubt he/she was..). The only way someone will pay will be in a witch hunt style (like in Maccarthism) process, and that will be highly controversial...thinking it again, someone may pay without getting the minimum guarantees, and since western world is spoting again new ways of processing people without the formal guarantees of the state of law (or constitutional state..i'm not sure what the expression in english should be...) it may even pass as a legitimate process.

You shouldn't be scared of all this information coming up in this manner..You should be scared of opacity, of no information permeating to the civil society, because no trasparency in government only enhances corruption, it allows power to be exerced without restraint.
An example of this was the usage of terrorist means by the Gladio network, the italian secret services, and the fascist movement in the 70s in Italy to destabilize and topple the advance of socialist movements...events like the piazza fontana bombing, the Pinelli murder and the extensive usage of preventive detention for several years without trial was only possible in a climate of secrecy where the state could operate freely without having to account for his actions.
Even the Aldo Moro incident was shady...
(but don't take my word for it, theres tons of material about this or other cases)

11-28-2010, 11:55 PM   #5
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That bit about the "nuclear bunker" is just your standard-issue blogosphere, idiot-journalistic attention-seeking. That thing's been owned by the Swedish ISP for ages, and was sold by the Swedish government. The reason behind the purchase by the ISP was because they're nerds and a nuclear bunker's probably the coolest thing you can own as a nerd.

I suppose Julian should be bracing himself for another inevitable rape accusation.

Last edited by Parallax; 11-29-2010 at 06:05 AM.
11-29-2010, 05:00 AM   #6
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Someone's pissed: Wikileaks attacked - The Inquirer

QuoteQuote:
It is unlikely to have been spooks that are responsible for the DoS attacks. It is more likely to have been US right-wing script kiddies who believe that they are saving their country from embarrassment. It is a little late for that.
But never to fear! Who shall host the website, offer it shelter whilst its home weathers the storm? An anonymous datacentre in Eastern Europe? South America?

No! A good ol' United States company, Amazon.com! Amazon hosts wikileaks website after ddos- The Inquirer

QuoteQuote:
It's unlikely that Wikileaks views Amazon's EC2 service as a permanent solution to its hosting needs, however its choice of Amazon is perhaps the ultimate single finger salute at the US government.
11-29-2010, 06:08 PM   #7
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Bank under fire

I'm actually starting to sympathize....
QuoteQuote:
Asked what he wanted to be the result of the disclosure, he replied: "I'm not sure. It will give a true and representative insight into how banks behave at the executive level in a way that will stimulate investigations and reforms, I presume."

He compared this release to emails that were unveiled as a result of the collapse of disgraced energy company Enron Corp.

"This will be like that. Yes, there will be some flagrant violations, unethical practices that will be revealed, but it will also be all the supporting decision-making structures and the internal executive ethos ... and that's tremendously valuable," Assange said.

"You could call it the ecosystem of corruption. But it's also all the regular decision making that turns a blind eye to and supports unethical practices: the oversight that's not done, the priorities of executives, how they think they're fulfilling their own self-interest," he said.
Addendum (not EXACTLY bank related)
QuoteQuote:
Greg Mitchell's catalogue of reactions to the leaked cables is a trove of substantive information. For example, drawing on the documents made available by WikiLeaks, the ACLU reports that the Bush administration "pressured Germany not to prosecute CIA officers responsible for the kidnapping, extraordinary rendition and torture of German national Khaled El-Masri", a terrorism suspect dumped in Albania once the CIA determined it had nabbed a nobody. I consider kidnapping and torture serious crimes, and I think it's interesting indeed if the United States government applied pressure to foreign governments to ensure complicity in the cover-up of it agents' abuses. In any case, I don't consider this gossip.

I think we all understand that the work of even the most decent governments is made more difficult when they cannot be sure their communications will be read by those for whom they were not intended. That said, there is no reason to assume that the United States government is always up to good. The United States is nominally a democracy, but it's sadly ridiculous to think this means very much. To get at the value of WikiLeaks, I think it's important to distinguish between the government—the temporary, elected authors of national policy—and the state—the permanent bureaucratic and military apparatus superficially but not fully controlled by the reigning government. The careerists scattered about the world in America's intelligence agencies, military, and consular offices largely operate behind a veil of secrecy executing policy which is itself largely secret. American citizens mostly have no idea what they are doing, or whether what they are doing is working out well. The actually-existing structure and strategy of the American empire remains a near-total mystery to those who foot the bill and whose children fight its wars. And that is the way the elite of America's unelected permanent state, perhaps the most powerful class of people on Earth, like it.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/11/overseeing_state_secrecy
As to business..... Duke of York.......
QuoteQuote:
The 50-year-old prince flew to New York yesterday for a pre-arranged private visit, and will have landed to highly embarrassing and damaging claims about his behaviour two years ago. As a member of the Royal Family, he is not expected to make political comments.

The Serious Fraud Office’s six-year investigation into BAE was triggered by allegations of billion-pound bribes and prostitutes supplied to members of the Saudi royal family.

It ended with the defence giant pleading guilty to minor accounting offences. BAE has always denied involvement in bribery or corruption.

Mrs Gfoeller wrote: ‘One businessman said that doing business here is “like doing business in the Yukon” in the 19th century, i.e. only those willing to participate in local corrupt practices are able to make any money (I believe this is in reference to Kyrgyzstan)... At this point the Duke of York laughed uproariously, saying that: “All of this sounds exactly like France.”’

Andrew was also said to have ‘reacted with almost neuralgic patriotism whenever any comparison between the U.S. and UK came up’.

The report is the first time his tactics in his role as ‘special representative’ with Whitehall’s business promotion body UK Trade and Investment have been laid bare.

The post is unpaid but Andrew spends about £150,000 of taxpayers’ money a year on hotels, food and entertainment, plus hundreds of thousands of pounds on foreign travel.

Graham Smith, of the campaign group Republic, said: ‘He was there to represent Britain, not criticise British institutions and undermine their credibility.

'He has shown a complete lack of judgment and, frankly, a level of stupidity. He is clearly not fit for the job and his role could now have become untenable
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1334223/Exposed-Prince-Andrews-lette...#ixzz16j1Zfxm8
QuoteQuote:
The post is unpaid but Andrew spends about £150,000 of taxpayers' money a year on hotels, food and entertainment, plus hundreds of thousands of pounds on foreign travel.

But critics warned the comments by the fourth in line to the throne risked severely damaging the special relationship with the U.S. and called for Andrew to quit.
Graham Smith of the campaign group Republic said: ‘He was there to represent Britain, not criticise British institutions and undermine their credibility.
'He has shown a complete lack of judgement and, frankly, a level of stupidity. He is clearly not fit for the job and his role could now have become untenable.
The revelations about the prince came as Downing Street was braced for another round of embarrassing details in what has been dubbed 'the 9/11 of world diplomacy'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1334278/WikiLeaks-How-Prince-Andrews...#ixzz16j3INrmg
QuoteQuote:
Andrew receives an annuity of about £250,000 a year from the Queen and the cost of his official trips is borne by the taxpayer. There were more than 600 trade-related engagements in Britain and abroad in 2008 and he visited more than 20 countries. Expenses averaged £4,000 a week.

"I'd love to be able to say I've been responsible for £10bn of business or for another 250 jobs coming to the UK [but sometimes] the companies themselves don't know," he told the Financial Times last year. "I get paid nothing ... That's my life. That's what I expect, right? That is because of who I am ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/29/prince-andrew-bats-britain-expense
Not getting paid but a 250,00 pound "annuity" plus perks....... ????????
I think us "small people" are having fun now........ I'm sure an "opps" moment is coming though.


Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-29-2010 at 06:50 PM.
11-29-2010, 07:49 PM   #8
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Guardian map

US embassy cables: browse the database | World news | guardian.co.uk

Lots of meat........
US embassy cables: Jordan wary of US engagement with Iran | World news | guardian.co.uk
11-30-2010, 08:33 AM   #9
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As an aside, I am constantly amazed at what people write in cables and emails (and posts on internet boards). Doesn't anyone get what an email is and how it is handled by the internet? People write these things as though they were conversations in private.
11-30-2010, 10:24 AM   #10
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Well, the cables were meant to be...
11-30-2010, 10:55 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Doesn't anyone get what an email is and how it is handled by the internet?
We know how it works..and how it's used (for control or market studies for example..), and thats why this kind of people devellop tools to enforce privacy on the internet.
Thats why for some things we use proxies, mails like the ones hosted by riseup, googlesharing (proxies again that don't keep logs...), and some other ways to ensure you can't be tracked or identified as an individual...
Internet is a tool...and because it's a tool it can be used in many ways...what's menacing is the will to control, and the usage of fear to ensure certain social structure...Emails should be private and, as normal mail, it should receive at least the formal guarantees of the state of law that normal mail has...the problem is that all those guarantees are being undermined as a whole leading this powerful structure called the state in much more agressive, sometimes subtle, repressive ways.
12-01-2010, 09:05 PM   #12
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This whole episode shows that the system actually does work:

Nothing of importance is being released here. No surprises, certainly. And nothing classified.

And if classified information IS released, the responsible party/parties will be hunted and prosecuted as they should be, for espionage.

But releasing a memo from a French Ambassador saying Hugo Chavez is crazy isn't exactly ground-breaking news.
12-02-2010, 06:47 AM   #13
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but one of the principles of diplomacy is the pretense that truths everyone knows aren't mentioned or explicitly stated.

It will be interesting to see how the diplomatic community reacts, as I'm sure everyone does this or even worse.
12-02-2010, 03:29 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
Nothing of importance is being released here. No surprises, certainly. And nothing classified. And if classified information IS released, the responsible party/parties will be hunted and prosecuted as they should be, for espionage.
The helicopter video and all the military papers doesn't seem of no importance to me...The diplomatic papers show how crude, vain and petty international "diplomacy" really is ..(we all knew it but it's always healthy to keep it in mind..)...and the responsible will only be hunt down undermining the very principles democracies build all their propaganda,self-image,and "legitimacy" on. Wich only makes people more and more cinycal or rebelious. It shows that all the rights and guarantees are wet paper,and all that really matters is state reason (razon de estado..not sure if that was the right expression.)
Like in Russia we'll have to accept (slowly but steadily) that we live in soft dictatorships or fight back.
12-02-2010, 03:34 PM   #15
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Either that, or realize that like in a small town, everyone knows about everyone and will talk behind their back, yet by and large still remain friends with the ability to co-exist (and when the opportunity comes, talk about the third person behind THEIR back)... In other words, normal and healthy human behavior.
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