[Ira]

If she's #2, you have hope, but if she's the last one, God help you. She may need convincing to consider HRT, not just for her sake.

Yeah, she's #2.

But how come there isn't a #8 on that list:

Horny.

[Ash]

re: black cohosh - It may, but then again your chances of sanity are significantly improved with the right HRT. All the best with it mate.

re: #8 horny variety - what's to complain about then, man?!? Sounds like a good reason to give her placebo rather than hormone replacement...

[casil403]

Today I had an episode. It was the last straw.
I am so forgetful these days that it is making me crazy. I cannot leave my house without going back into it at least 2 or 3 times to get thing I have forgotten.
In the last 3 weeks I have lost my wallet, my bank card (found them both) and today a cheque for a significant amount of $$ (still not found even after ripping the house apart and retracing my steps over the past day........twice)....it is sooooo frustrating and soooooo unlike me that I can do sometimes is just sit and cry. I know it is all part of the process but dang this is sooo hard...and it's only just beginning.

I would give almost anything just to make this go away......
I guess I would be the forgetful crying dwarf.

[magkelly]

FYI, the use of HRT has recently been linked to possibly being the reason for the major surge in breast cancer over the past few decades that it's use has been common. Most doctors are drawing back from the use of artificial hormones for women undergoing menopause.

Why? Well, a few years back they advised that women not go there and since then the breast cancer rate has dropped significantly. There are a lot of studies out there that suggest women are far better off sipping a little menopause tea before going the artificial hormonal route.

This past year they've started to look at simple estrogen replacement as an alternative to HRT but I can't see why that's such a good idea either as they have known for some time that there is a link between high estrogen and breast cancer in some women.

Black cohosh and the like pretty much were the standard treatment for women's problems before HRT and the Pill came along. They're also good for cramps and the like and for the record they're pretty non-toxic as used in teas and such. Ask a GYN now and many of them will steer you in that direction. Soy products supposedly also help, maybe Evening Primrose Oil, though the jury is still out on that one. Some say yes, some say no.

I personally don't see why we have to take anything for it. It's a natural process. Part of life. I'm pretty young for it, but due to some unrelated medical stuff it seems I've just begun it myself. It's not pleasant at times. Nobody likes going from freezing to dripping sweat on a dime, feeling horribly cranky for no reason, et all, but the way I see it it's not the end of the world. It's just the body changing from one state to another and if you keep a sense of humor about it it's not THAT bad.

Then again since I was barely 9 I've been just waiting for the day when I finally wouldn't have to worry about undergoing physical pain and an emotional roller coaster once a month. For all the act that the process sucks I'm actually thinking of this as a very positive moment in my life. It's annoying and inconvenient and slightly insane but then so is heavy bleeding, cramps so bad you can hardly walk, and intense migraines for 5 days a month!

It's all about how you approach it. Humor I think is very important and lots of love. It won't last forever and when it's done life can actually improve in some ways. No more worrying about getting pregnant. No more need for buying menstrual gear. No PMS. A year or two of the hormonal crazies is a small price to pay I think for some...

I'd be weary about black cohosh since there is no ability to regulate its dose and evidence on its efficacy to control menopausal symptoms is inconsistent, whereas simple HRT is over 80% effective. Moreover, black cohosh is not void of side effects, the commonest of which is tummy upset, but the most serious one (luckily rare) is liver failure. 'Natural' is not always best.

[Class A]

It's just that I worry about her stabbing me in my sleep.

That would solve the problem you raised in your first post.

[Ash]

FYI, the use of HRT has recently been linked to possibly being the reason for the major surge in breast cancer over the past few decades that it's use has been common. Most doctors are drawing back from the use of artificial hormones for women undergoing menopause.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt magkelly. I may not be a woman to know, but I do advise menopausal women and prescribe them medication to treat their symptoms, so I think I'm qualified to address your FYI statement.

The existence of menopause symptoms is never an absolute indication for treatment. However for those women who seek relief from them, effective medical therapy is available. The Women's Health Initiative study found a small yet significant increase in *relative* risk in breast cancer in long term use (>5yrs) of HRT but the absolute risk increase was miniscule. The WHI reported a slightly lower relative risk after 5 years of combined HRT. In absolute terms that's 8 extra cases per 10,000 women years. This is similar risk seen for a late menopause (by virtue of ongoing endogenous hormone production), nulliparity or more than 3 alcoholic drinks per day.



That is the extent of the increased risk of breast cancer.

Now this is the current opinion on HRT by doctors (at least in Australia):

- The primary indication for HRT is to alleviate undesirable vasomotor symptoms of menopause

- HRT use for up to 7 years will not increase breast cancer risk, even longer for oestrogen-only therapy

- HRT increases bone density and reduces fracture risk

- HRT does not worsen heart disease even in younger women

- HRT proportionally increases the risk of thromboembolism (DVT/PE) acording to dose, age and delivery system. Thus treatment should be individually tailored and assessed.

Overall, the risks of HRT have been sensationalised in the media, but it remains the best treatment.

[casil403]

The thing with HRT though is that it does not make you bypass the symptoms of menopause...it just stalls the inevitable.
My Mum was on HRT for a long time and she went off it...now for the last 3 or so years, at 65 she is going through what she should have been going through 10 years ago.....and she hates it and regrets having done HRT!

So I guess the question is that isn't it just better to go through it now headfirst rather than do HRT only to just end up having to go through it later?
I'm thinking about going to see my GP regarding this and what other alternatives are available.

[eddie1960]

I'm open to suggestions, because this is efffin ridiculous.

If I kill her, I go to jail. But if I kill myself, everyone will be happy.

LMAO
Been there done that Ira, it's a tough couple of years for sure. but it does improve at the other end, my wife is probably easier to live with now than at any point in the last 29 years
and yep killing yourself is the win win scenario at this point lol

[eddie1960]

I can't:

Our house is too small.

My lot is 14.5' x 52' I survived by agreeing (and biting my tongue frequently, keeping my head down, and being as supportive as possible. Sometimes no matter what you do/say it won't be right, just bite your tongue and remember it's the hormones talking not your love. My wife is now 56 and I can tell you it's much better on the other side of menopause.

[Ash]

The thing with HRT though is that it does not make you bypass the symptoms of menopause...it just stalls the inevitable.
My Mum was on HRT for a long time and she went off it...now for the last 3 or so years, at 65 she is going through what she should have been going through 10 years ago.....and she hates it and regrets having done HRT!

Not necessarily so Lisa.
Firstly, HRT provides relief for the period of treatment. It means that instead of experiencing symptoms for 10 years, a post-menopausal woman can get relief for at least 7 of them. Certainly better than no treatment. While I sympathise with your mum, she regrets going on HRT because it seems she perceives the treatment is associated with what she's going through at the moment. Part of the emotional symptomatology experienced. Encouragement goes a long way here.

But now to address the 'delaying the inevitable' notion, this is not quite reality. Most women can go onto HRT for a defined period, getting complete relief and never having symptoms once coming off the treatment. Reason? The average length of time menopausal symptoms last is just over 5 years (Duration of vasomotor symptoms in middle-aged women [Menopause. 2009 May-Jun] - PubMed), well within the acceptable treatment period of HRT.

So I guess the question is that isn't it just better to go through it now headfirst rather than do HRT only to just end up having to go through it later?
I'm thinking about going to see my GP regarding this and what other alternatives are available.

As above, but that's a personal decision. There's a guideline GPs have to decide the most appropriate treatment method for each patient. Sometimes it's best to do nothing if the symptoms are bearable/manageable without treatment. But sometimes it's clear that quality of life is being greatly affected by the symptoms and treatment is warranted.

'Natural' therapy unjustifiably gets a lot more respect than pharmaceutical medicine, but again this is a personal choice, and if it works for that person and they're happy with the choice of therapy, that's success.

[casil403]

Thanks for all this information Ash...I for one find it incredibly helpful.

Mum said there's creams one can get with a prescription which is what I am thinking...hence the GP visit...I'm all for anything that can make me feel less crazy and like I am having Alzheimer's rather than perimenopause.

If I could just find relief from the forgetfulness my life would be fine....hot flashes for me only occur when I've had coffee or alcohol and the bitchiness is only when I'm frustrated about losing stuff.

The psycho part is only when I run into the ex on the street!!! ....

[Ash]

Thanks for all this information Ash...I for one find it incredibly helpful.

Mum said there's creams one can get with a prescription which is what I am thinking...hence the GP visit...I'm all for anything that can make me feel less crazy and like I am having Alzheimer's rather than perimenopause.

If I could just find relief from the forgetfulness my life would be fine....hot flashes for me only occur when I've had coffee or alcohol and the bitchiness is only when I'm frustrated about losing stuff.

The psycho part is only when I run into the ex on the street!!! ....

PM sent your way, plus the consultation bill.

[eddie1960]

Yeah, she's #2.

But how come there isn't a #8 on that list:

Horny.

No-one would complain about a #8, didn't appear for me though either

[GeneV]

Tonight is our anniversary, with a romantic dinner preceded by a sip of wine from our year. It would be a good night for number 8.

(Interesting year for our bodies: Menopause for her and a serious bicycle accident for me. I'm not sure who got the better deal.)

[Ash]

Make the most of it Gene.

All the best for the night. (Enjoy the vintage wine.)