Originally posted by Ira The U.S. didn't make many of these countries lazy and corrupt. They did it all by themselves.
Sense some racism over here?
I'm not spanish for your information..and yes Spain has had intervention in south america too..and yes it's been the kind of intervention where a native population gets stolen it's land for Spanish enterprises to reap economic profit out of it...
USA is no bogeyman..and yes it's its fault if South America is how it is..because it's always been the brothel and the backyard of USA..if S.A. (south america) had had the chance to develop and implement some redistributive policies, some health and education policies instead of suffering ruthless , USA backed, military dictatorships it wouldn't lean so much toward demagogue and populist politicians...For profits sake the USA has maintained S.A. in a state of underdevelopment aiding in some war effort against not only communist but anyone with progressive social ideas (thats sindicalists, moderate intelectuals and even true christian churchmen...).
Originally posted by Ira You see, you have no idea what is going on in the country, and you choose to turn a blind eye to the thievery, injustice and dictatorship there because it supports your political agenda. And that's okay. But for God's sake, just admit it.
Of course there is corruption and thieving (although you only rant about it and don't bring anymore evidence than the one you demand..) and it's not my agenda..for starters you don't know my political thought...and if it's thieving that you loathe, does Enron ring a bell?..Damn there is laziness and mediocresy everywhere you look (in the USA too..BIG TIME).
USA is no bogeyman there is evidence about it's intervention and it's effects..there are international rullings about El Salvador and Nicaragua for example...
It's not that S.A. is lazy it's that it's been sunken in years of war...and dictatorial government (usually backed and maintained by US money and military support..).
Originally posted by Ira That someone are usually big corporations? As if that makes expropriation right anyway?
Stop caricaturizing i didn't use that simplist aproach..what i was trying to state is that corporations are not innocent bystanders (they are at the roots of private armies killing indigenous people in the Amazons so they can drill and exploit the resources for example..or little less brutal directly to human beings but as destructive, they are responsible of the destruction of the rain forest to make extensive pasture land for the cows we eat in our garbage food...)...
In S.A. there is no innocent actor..everyone with power has been involved in dirty, unelegant, confrontations..So stop demonizing a stupid politician and treating every other actor involved as a legitimate one (like those fredom loving militaries you were talking about or the big corporations, or rural land owners...).
And finally even if you don't want to acknowledge it, a lot of the complexity an grey character of south american politics has been caused by USA's intervention..that's not using a bogeyman to justify the doings of anyone (may it be Chavez or the FNLM, or anyone else..), t
hat's considering the role that USA's intervention has in south american politics.
Stop trying to present everyone else, except you, as a simplist with a hidden agenda.
Chavez sucks, USA interventionism sucks, COINTELPRO sucks,state ran COMUNISM sucks,CAPITALISM sucks,CIA sucks,MILITARY suck, and if i had to continue i wouldn't finish writing in three days time..
No one involved is a saint (but some are innocent bystanders and most are just "out of luck", "born in the wrong place" people.)