Words (and a article) to ponder on

JavaJoe · 12-29-2010, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Sparkle

The American psyche at work again! Predisposed to grandeur. Just find out at what a 1922 radio looks like for starters. You will also find that at least seven countries were ahead of the USA in the 1921 radio business, including Mexico and likely double that with the flow over into 1922. I grew up beside "Marconi Towers" in Glace Bay, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. It was from there that the first wireless radio transmission across the Atlantic Ocean to Ireland occurred in 1902. IMO, and shared by peoples throughout the world, the USA has always been the greatest source of horse manure. It also has its good points.

Well we must have our good points. I see people risking everything to get into the USA. Not too much for Canada however. And I sure don't see mass immigration to mexico. Or Cuba. Or Venezuala. Or for that matter any other country. Wonder what those trying to get into the USA see? Can you tell me?

JavaJoe · 12-29-2010, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Sparkle

AP: Breaking | Alerts | World | US | Politics | Business | Entertainment | Life | Science | Odd | Sports | Tech

Medicare regulation revives end-of-life planning
Dec 25 10:59 PM US/Eastern

WASHINGTON (AP) - A new health regulation issued this month offers Medicare recipients voluntary end-of-life planning, which Democrats dropped from the monumental health care overhaul last year.

The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death.

But the practice was heavily criticized by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and some other Republicans who have likened the counseling to "death panels."

The "voluntary advance care planning" is included in a Medicare regulation issued Dec. 3 that covers annual checkups, known as wellness visits. It goes into effect Jan. 1.

The regulation was first reported by The New York Times.

I just wonder why Rep. Earl Blumenauer of Oregon wanted to keep it quiet if it's such a great idea?

Since the funding of ObamaCare will be so costly they can use this provision to counsel Seasoned Citizens not to have the costly EOL treatments thereby saving money and rationing care. They can take a pain pill instead. For the record Bush vetoed a similar idea but was overturned.

Sparkle · 12-29-2010, 09:07 AM

You may rest assured that in Canada the "Ethics" being presently (over the last few years) taught to old and new doctors is, "No point in wasting time and money on a Senior citizen if death is likely to occur in the next six months or so anyway."

Politics in the USA has always been interesting. Some major decisions that effect the world emanate from there: (1812 (The Star Spangled Banner); (The underground Railway by which the slaves escaped to Canada); 1898 (Remember The Maine); WWI (Late entry); the 30's (The New Deal); WWII (Late entry and payments); The Bomb; JFK (mystery); Korea (Peacekeeping); Vietnam (Draft Dodgers to Canada); Reaganomics and "Take down that Wall"; Iraq; Afghanistan etc. etc. Many of us have friends and relatives that long ago moved there. It has always been said that when the US gets a cold, Canada gets pneumonia! It behooves us to pay attention. Let me know if anyone needs a lesson in geography. LOL

JohnInIndy · 12-30-2010, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Sparkle

You may rest assured that in Canada the "Ethics" being presently (over the last few years) taught to old and new doctors is, "No point in wasting time and money on a Senior citizen if death is likely to occur in the next six months or so anyway."

Politics in the USA has always been interesting. Some major decisions that effect the world emanate from there: (1812 (The Star Spangled Banner); (The underground Railway by which the slaves escaped to Canada); 1898 (Remember The Maine); WWI (Late entry); the 30's (The New Deal); WWII (Late entry and payments); The Bomb; JFK (mystery); Korea (Peacekeeping); Vietnam (Draft Dodgers to Canada); Reaganomics and "Take down that Wall"; Iraq; Afghanistan etc. etc. Many of us have friends and relatives that long ago moved there. It has always been said that when the US gets a cold, Canada gets pneumonia! It behooves us to pay attention. Let me know if anyone needs a lesson in geography. LOL

And you're OK with the doctors playing God? Advising to withhold treatment as a form of rationing? You're really OK with that huh? Right now it's not much of a concern for me. I'm only 40. But when it's my turn I want every available option. Not rationing because they rammed a bad bill down our maws.

jeffkrol · 12-30-2010, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

And you're OK with the doctors playing God? Advising to withhold treatment as a form of rationing? You're really OK with that huh? Right now it's not much of a concern for me. I'm only 40. But when it's my turn I want every available option. Not rationing because they rammed a bad bill down our maws.

Doctors or your relatives????? They both can legally do that now in some circumstances............
Wisconsin Lawyer May 2010: Editorial: Withholding a Feeding Tube from a Nonvegetative Dementia Patient | State Bar of Wisconsin

Quote:

The decision to withhold or withdraw a feeding tube from a person who cannot eat or drink carries life or death consequences. If a person is in a persistent vegetative state, Wisconsin generally permits a surrogate decisionmaker to withhold artificial nutrition and hydration if doing so is in the patient’s best interests.1 Some people plan ahead for such an event by signing a power of attorney for health care (POAHC), which becomes activated when the person is incapacitated.2 If the person has checked “yes” in the POAHC’s “feeding tube” section, a health care agent “may have a feeding tube withheld or withdrawn ... unless [the principal’s] physician has advised that, in his or her professional judgment, this will cause [the principal] pain or will reduce [his or her] comfort.”3

But what about persons who are not in a vegetative state and need a feeding tube because they have dementia as a result of a condition such as Alzheimer’s, which has robbed them of the ability to swallow? Such patients may be fully conscious and enter the hospital capable of walking, talking, smiling, and still interacting with their grandkids or great-grandkids. Does Wisconsin law permit agents and physicians to withhold a feeding tube under such circumstances? Do persons who checked “yes” in the POAHC’s feeding tube section really want to die in that situation? Have attorneys advised their clients about these problematic issues before they sign a standard POAHC document or added language to the POAHC clarifying their clients’ intent?
Overview of Law

THIS question is as old as the proverbial Inuit and ice flow............
Ignorance is bliss and dangerous all at the same time...................

Nesster · 12-30-2010, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

And you're OK with the doctors playing God? Advising to withhold treatment as a form of rationing? You're really OK with that huh? Right now it's not much of a concern for me. I'm only 40. But when it's my turn I want every available option. Not rationing because they rammed a bad bill down our maws.

So let's take two hypotheticals: you, in this situation want all possible treatment, even if the treatment is not likely to either cure you or extend your life (with or without 'quality') for very long, and you expect me to pay for it?

On the other hand, would you want to pay for the same treatment for the guy down the street, a person identified as someone without a sense of personal responsibility...

With today's set up, and even after the bad bill that was rammed through, the people doing this deciding are the doctors, your loved ones, and the insurance companies - and your loved ones will be distracted by having to fight the insurance companies every step of the way in order to get you coverage.

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12-29-2010, 08:34 AM	#16
JavaJoe Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somewhere between here and there Posts: 120	Originally posted by Sparkle The American psyche at work again! Predisposed to grandeur. Just find out at what a 1922 radio looks like for starters. You will also find that at least seven countries were ahead of the USA in the 1921 radio business, including Mexico and likely double that with the flow over into 1922. I grew up beside "Marconi Towers" in Glace Bay, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. It was from there that the first wireless radio transmission across the Atlantic Ocean to Ireland occurred in 1902. IMO, and shared by peoples throughout the world, the USA has always been the greatest source of horse manure. It also has its good points. Well we must have our good points. I see people risking everything to get into the USA. Not too much for Canada however. And I sure don't see mass immigration to mexico. Or Cuba. Or Venezuala. Or for that matter any other country. Wonder what those trying to get into the USA see? Can you tell me?

12-29-2010, 08:43 AM	#17
JavaJoe Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somewhere between here and there Posts: 120	Originally posted by Sparkle AP: Breaking \| Alerts \| World \| US \| Politics \| Business \| Entertainment \| Life \| Science \| Odd \| Sports \| Tech Medicare regulation revives end-of-life planning Dec 25 10:59 PM US/Eastern WASHINGTON (AP) - A new health regulation issued this month offers Medicare recipients voluntary end-of-life planning, which Democrats dropped from the monumental health care overhaul last year. The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death. But the practice was heavily criticized by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and some other Republicans who have likened the counseling to "death panels." The "voluntary advance care planning" is included in a Medicare regulation issued Dec. 3 that covers annual checkups, known as wellness visits. It goes into effect Jan. 1. The regulation was first reported by The New York Times. I just wonder why Rep. Earl Blumenauer of Oregon wanted to keep it quiet if it's such a great idea? Since the funding of ObamaCare will be so costly they can use this provision to counsel Seasoned Citizens not to have the costly EOL treatments thereby saving money and rationing care. They can take a pain pill instead. For the record Bush vetoed a similar idea but was overturned.

12-29-2010, 09:07 AM	#18
Sparkle Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,521	You may rest assured that in Canada the "Ethics" being presently (over the last few years) taught to old and new doctors is, "No point in wasting time and money on a Senior citizen if death is likely to occur in the next six months or so anyway." Politics in the USA has always been interesting. Some major decisions that effect the world emanate from there: (1812 (The Star Spangled Banner); (The underground Railway by which the slaves escaped to Canada); 1898 (Remember The Maine); WWI (Late entry); the 30's (The New Deal); WWII (Late entry and payments); The Bomb; JFK (mystery); Korea (Peacekeeping); Vietnam (Draft Dodgers to Canada); Reaganomics and "Take down that Wall"; Iraq; Afghanistan etc. etc. Many of us have friends and relatives that long ago moved there. It has always been said that when the US gets a cold, Canada gets pneumonia! It behooves us to pay attention. Let me know if anyone needs a lesson in geography. LOL

12-30-2010, 02:20 PM	#19
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Originally posted by Sparkle You may rest assured that in Canada the "Ethics" being presently (over the last few years) taught to old and new doctors is, "No point in wasting time and money on a Senior citizen if death is likely to occur in the next six months or so anyway." Politics in the USA has always been interesting. Some major decisions that effect the world emanate from there: (1812 (The Star Spangled Banner); (The underground Railway by which the slaves escaped to Canada); 1898 (Remember The Maine); WWI (Late entry); the 30's (The New Deal); WWII (Late entry and payments); The Bomb; JFK (mystery); Korea (Peacekeeping); Vietnam (Draft Dodgers to Canada); Reaganomics and "Take down that Wall"; Iraq; Afghanistan etc. etc. Many of us have friends and relatives that long ago moved there. It has always been said that when the US gets a cold, Canada gets pneumonia! It behooves us to pay attention. Let me know if anyone needs a lesson in geography. LOL And you're OK with the doctors playing God? Advising to withhold treatment as a form of rationing? You're really OK with that huh? Right now it's not much of a concern for me. I'm only 40. But when it's my turn I want every available option. Not rationing because they rammed a bad bill down our maws.

12-30-2010, 02:38 PM	#20
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434 Original Poster	Originally posted by JohnInIndy And you're OK with the doctors playing God? Advising to withhold treatment as a form of rationing? You're really OK with that huh? Right now it's not much of a concern for me. I'm only 40. But when it's my turn I want every available option. Not rationing because they rammed a bad bill down our maws. Doctors or your relatives????? They both can legally do that now in some circumstances............ Wisconsin Lawyer May 2010: Editorial: Withholding a Feeding Tube from a Nonvegetative Dementia Patient \| State Bar of Wisconsin Quote: The decision to withhold or withdraw a feeding tube from a person who cannot eat or drink carries life or death consequences. If a person is in a persistent vegetative state, Wisconsin generally permits a surrogate decisionmaker to withhold artificial nutrition and hydration if doing so is in the patient’s best interests.1 Some people plan ahead for such an event by signing a power of attorney for health care (POAHC), which becomes activated when the person is incapacitated.2 If the person has checked “yes” in the POAHC’s “feeding tube” section, a health care agent “may have a feeding tube withheld or withdrawn ... unless [the principal’s] physician has advised that, in his or her professional judgment, this will cause [the principal] pain or will reduce [his or her] comfort.”3 But what about persons who are not in a vegetative state and need a feeding tube because they have dementia as a result of a condition such as Alzheimer’s, which has robbed them of the ability to swallow? Such patients may be fully conscious and enter the hospital capable of walking, talking, smiling, and still interacting with their grandkids or great-grandkids. Does Wisconsin law permit agents and physicians to withhold a feeding tube under such circumstances? Do persons who checked “yes” in the POAHC’s feeding tube section really want to die in that situation? Have attorneys advised their clients about these problematic issues before they sign a standard POAHC document or added language to the POAHC clarifying their clients’ intent? Overview of Law THIS question is as old as the proverbial Inuit and ice flow............ Ignorance is bliss and dangerous all at the same time...................

12-30-2010, 02:55 PM	#21
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Originally posted by JohnInIndy And you're OK with the doctors playing God? Advising to withhold treatment as a form of rationing? You're really OK with that huh? Right now it's not much of a concern for me. I'm only 40. But when it's my turn I want every available option. Not rationing because they rammed a bad bill down our maws. So let's take two hypotheticals: you, in this situation want all possible treatment, even if the treatment is not likely to either cure you or extend your life (with or without 'quality') for very long, and you expect me to pay for it? On the other hand, would you want to pay for the same treatment for the guy down the street, a person identified as someone without a sense of personal responsibility... With today's set up, and even after the bad bill that was rammed through, the people doing this deciding are the doctors, your loved ones, and the insurance companies - and your loved ones will be distracted by having to fight the insurance companies every step of the way in order to get you coverage.