[jeffkrol]

Why don't we just have the UN monitor our elections.......
Seems like such a small thing. Where's the "freedom party" when you need it......

State Sen. Joe Leibham, R-Sheboygan, and state Rep. Jeff Stone, R-Greendale, have introduced a bill requiring a photo ID to vote or register to vote, according to a news release. "Requiring voters to prove their identity is a reasonable requirement and a key step in restoring confidence and integrity in Wisconsin's election system," the politicians stated in a news release.

They want to make it a state constitutional amendment as well......
Republicans want constitutional change on voter ID - chicagotribune.com

The Republican Party wants you to believe that Wisconsin’s voter registration system doesn’t work and leads to widespread voter fraud.

Ergo, Republicans say, it’s essential to pass a law requiring Wisconsin voters to display a photo identification card on Election Day to end the fraud.

That would be a reasonable solution if the system were really broken and there were hundreds of illegal votes that swayed election results around the state. But the system works well, and there has never been any evidence of rampant voter fraud.

The Wisconsin Government Accountability Board is in charge of overseeing clean elections. After the 2008 election, the board contacted all of the prosecutors in the state. The result: Six criminal charges alleging voter fraud.

“While empirical evidence made available to the board has not documented any widespread, organized or systemic cases of voting by ineligible individuals or double voting in Wisconsin, the board has consistently maintained that evidence of any case will be thoroughly investigated, and if the evidence merits it, prosecuted to the full extent of the law,” GAB says on its website.

Want more proof? Let’s go back to 2004, when there were allegations of widespread voter fraud in Milwaukee. The Brennan Center for Justice reported that of the 277,865 votes cast in Milwaukee and the 2,997,007 votes in Wisconsin, there were only seven substantiated cases involving someone who knowingly cast an invalid vote. And because these were people with felony convictions — requiring them to show a photo ID at the polls wouldn’t have helped one bit. And a photo ID wouldn’t have prevented the other 11 substantiated votes cast by ineligible voters that year in Milwaukee.

Our view: Voter ID fixes nonexistent problem
totalitarianism marches on...........
Be skeptical of both sides in debate over N.C. voter ID law - CharlotteObserver.com

Scholars who have investigated this question have generally found similar results. In perhaps the most extensive study of this topic, Barnard College political scientist Lorraine Minnite concludes that extensive, intentional voter fraud is a myth. Another study of voter fraud in the 2006 Georgia elections produced similarly small numbers. Simply put, the evidence does not support the claims of widespread voter fraud.

There also are a number of good studies about the effects of voter ID laws on turnout. In perhaps the most sophisticated one, Cal Tech researchers concluded that voter ID laws lead to a very small decrease in voter turnout. Similarly, political scientists Tim Vercellotti and David Anderson document a small decrease in voter turnout when voter ID laws are put into place. Other studies, including from the University of Delaware and from Columbia University, suggest there is no effect at all. Many Democrats may argue that voter ID laws suppress turnout, but the scholarly evidence offers little to support this assertion.

A final claim made by some advocates is that voter ID laws will lead to an increased level of trust in government. Once again, the scholarly evidence does not support this assertion either. Harvard's Steven Ansolabehere finds that voters in states with more stringent voter ID laws did not have higher confidence in the political system than voters in states with weaker voter ID regulations. If we pass a voter ID law in North Carolina, it probably won't give people more faith in the system.

Although the empirical evidence does not tell us whether voter ID laws are good or bad, it does suggest that we should be leery of the major arguments from both sides of the aisle. When Republicans say that fraud is rampant or that voter ID laws will increase trust in the system, be skeptical. Likewise, when Democrats argue that voter ID laws will depress turnout in large and meaningful ways, be skeptical.

We don't know if a voter ID law will pass in North Carolina, but if it does, don't expect it to have a substantial effect on political outcomes in the Tar Heel state.

Be skeptical of both sides in debate over N.C. voter ID law - CharlotteObserver.com

KEEP the gov out of my way... sometimes.
More Republican windmills.............

[mikemike]

More Republican windmills.............

Your right this is a windmill because voter fraud isn't all that rampant anyway these days, but I don't really think this is an unreasonable requirement.

In LA you either need photo ID or a voter registration card. If you vote on election day it doesn't make a big difference but if you go in for early voting it is a lot faster with a driver's license because you just swipe your ID and sign and the computer automatically programs the voting machine for your ballot but if someone is using their voter registration card the poll worker has to search the system for you to program your ballot.

As long as your state doesn't make headlines like Florida or Minnesota you should be happy. Bickering about election laws is a time honored pastime of state politicians.

[Ratmagiclady]

People voting fraudulently in person is certainly a myth, but what's *not* is voter suppression, and urban and minority (heavily-democratic, that is) districts having been undersupplied with ballots and booths and machines, meaning everyone doesn't get to vote, meaning there's more interest for the GOP to slow down the works, and in some cases intimidate people with ballot challenges, spread disinformation about what the ID measure means in certain districts with robo-calls, etc.

It's one more way they can lean on the scales, in other words.

The simple fact is, the poorer you are, the more likely your papers aren't in order. If you're choosing between food and medicine, you might not choose 'Go get the state ID renewed' as a priority.

[JohnInIndy]

People voting fraudulently in person is certainly a myth, but what's *not* is voter suppression, and urban and minority (heavily-democratic, that is) districts having been undersupplied with ballots and booths and machines, meaning everyone doesn't get to vote, meaning there's more interest for the GOP to slow down the works, and in some cases intimidate people with ballot challenges, spread disinformation about what the ID measure means in certain districts with robo-calls, etc.

It's one more way they can lean on the scales, in other words.

The simple fact is, the poorer you are, the more likely your papers aren't in order. If you're choosing between food and medicine, you might not choose 'Go get the state ID renewed' as a priority.

You mean voter suppression and intimidation (OK I added that) like this?

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU[/YT]

[mikemike]

People voting fraudulently in person is certainly a myth, but what's *not* is voter suppression, and urban and minority (heavily-democratic, that is) districts having been undersupplied with ballots and booths and machines, meaning everyone doesn't get to vote, meaning there's more interest for the GOP to slow down the works, and in some cases intimidate people with ballot challenges, spread disinformation about what the ID measure means in certain districts with robo-calls, etc.

It's one more way they can lean on the scales, in other words.

The simple fact is, the poorer you are, the more likely your papers aren't in order. If you're choosing between food and medicine, you might not choose 'Go get the state ID renewed' as a priority.

I think that they would have to make state ID cards free if they made photo ID a requirement to vote since vote is a constitutionally protected right.

I think that is the reason they didn't want to make photo ID required here because it would essentially cut a fee that would have to be made up with a tax and republicans would rather let the 5-10 fraudulent votes slip through ocassionally than be caught increasing taxes.

Maybe in Georgia, but here the size of polling places (# of eligible voters) determines the number of polling machines that get deployed there.

[gokenin]

People voting fraudulently in person is certainly a myth, but what's *not* is voter suppression, and urban and minority (heavily-democratic, that is) districts having been undersupplied with ballots and booths and machines, meaning everyone doesn't get to vote, meaning there's more interest for the GOP to slow down the works, and in some cases intimidate people with ballot challenges, spread disinformation about what the ID measure means in certain districts with robo-calls, etc.

It's one more way they can lean on the scales, in other words.

The simple fact is, the poorer you are, the more likely your papers aren't in order. If you're choosing between food and medicine, you might not choose 'Go get the state ID renewed' as a priority.

Please we all know that the largest thing that effects election is VOTER APATHY
the largest national election turnout in the last 50 years was a incredible 63.1% of people old enough to vote

National Voter Turnout in Federal Elections: 1960?2008 — Infoplease.com

local and state election only typically result in even lower turnout levels especially if there is no ballot ticket that has state wide significance. The idea of a ID being needed to vote is something that should be required.

[jeffkrol]

You mean voter suppression and intimidation (OK I added that) like this?

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU[/YT]

OHHHHH scarey.. we've been down this road before..

BUT in reference to this........

Based on this group's exhaustive study, Hennepin County has charged 47 people with committing voter fraud. 43 felons voted (many of them just didn't know that felons aren't allowed to vote) and four people double-voted.

Meanwhile psychotic hate-blogger Michelle Malkin is appearing on Fox to warn the old people that any time a Democrat wins an election, it is because thousands of illegal immigrant felons triple-voted for him or her. Malkin commands Fox viewers to declare themselves the "voter fraud police," which means harassing people who look poor or foreign. (Why won't the Justice Department arrest the New Black Panthers who keep stealing elections, hmm?)

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/10/27/voter_fraud_scam
Think there both wrong...... hmmm.....

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 01-13-2011 at 01:38 PM.

[Nesster]

I think the photo ID thing is a great idea - this way they'll catch those headless corpses when they try to vote in Arizona

I agree that voter fraud is really not that big of a problem. However, I also don't think that requiring a valid state issued photo ID is bad idea. At least as long as they are free for those who cannot afford them. The alternative would amount to poll tax which is illegal.

I would not be surprised to learn that anyone who does not have their "papers in order" to the extent that it could prevent them from voting probably do not vote anyway.

Since most people pay or there DL, the free IDs would cost very little and that cost could be covered by a modest increase in the price of DL renewals.

[jeffkrol]

I agree that voter fraud is really not that big of a problem. However, I also don't think that requiring a valid state issued photo ID is bad idea. At least as long as they are free for those who cannot afford them. The alternative would amount to poll tax which is illegal.

I would not be surprised to learn that anyone who does not have their "papers in order" to the extent that it could prevent them from voting probably do not vote anyway.

Since most people pay or there DL, the free IDs would cost very little and that cost could be covered by a modest increase in the price of DL renewals.

How about a free fed ID..........
Again think about what you said fully.... who doesn't drive or have a license, who doesn't really need to spend a penny more of what little they have......
......... PAPERS PLEASE............

[Sparkle]

In Canada we are enumerated by a couple of hired people who come knocking before an election. They leave a notice to go someplace to Register to vote if not at home.
Then the Registration Card must be presented at the Voting Station.
The Voting Stations (a shool gym, church hall e.g.) are local and small enough that someone in charge usually recognizes you. A paper Ballot is given and a private lectern provided together with a small pencil to mark the ballet with an X in the circle beside your candidate of choice.
Appointed reps from every party are present when the folded ballot is put into a cardboard box and later counted.
It works. New Immigrants hardly ever exercise their right to vote.