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01-18-2011, 02:39 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Actually, in the server rooms, Linux presence is really high.
Windows Server market share is equal to Linux but consumers don't care about server market share.

01-18-2011, 02:41 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
loaded my Cad /Cam software (which cost over 2 grand) onto a PC to run CAM horizontal mill. After weeks of after hours work trying to get it going and hours talking to company reps, one of the reps asked me "You aren't trying to put it on a -----." I said, "yes I am".. to which he responded," it doesn't work on those."
...
To the software people it's a hardware problem. Really, I don't know how PC people tolerate this stuff.
The fact that the software existed is a benefit of a disintegrated software/hardware marketplace and the occasional incompatabilities is an inevitable consequence. I don't know how the Apple people don't give the Beast from Redmond more props for maintaining so much compatiblity with the millions or billions of permutations of of PC products and hardware that have been released. Apple could (and maybe does) fit a copy of every single variation of hardware they have ever released dating back to the 1970s in a relatively small building.

The integrated hardware and software environment would mean that you have a workstation for writing your CAM programs, another workstation for operating the mill, another workstation for writing documents and checking email, another workstation for printing stuff on the plotter, etc... Eventually you have 5-6 physical computers that have virtually the same technical specifications but are certified and supported from thumbscrews to thumbnails by the same company and you have paid vastly different amounts for each one.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Oh please, don't tell me a Microsoft user is going down that path. Everyone compete against everyone, in every community. Apple is supposed to give everyone else a free pass because they wrote the OS. Please. You mean like Microsoft keeps their software up to date for Apple users. MSN is barely functional on Macs. Open your eyes... that's business.
Some of it is because MS's hands have been tied by regulators in the US and the EU but I would say there is a lot fewer cases of MS cock blocking small time developers with good ideas these days. MS biggest offense is their propensity to do stuff non-standard ways like calling internationalization "globalization" or there failure to implement a proper HTML engine in IE. MS is much more into competing with their equals like IBM or Oracle than hassling small time developers like apple does with the itunes store.
01-18-2011, 02:45 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Windows Server market share is equal to Linux but consumers don't care about server market share.
Yes, so that is about 50-50 then. Which customers? Google for instance
01-18-2011, 02:50 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Windows Server market share is equal to Linux but consumers don't care about server market share.
Thats really OT, linux also has a huge marketshare of integrated systems and things that you usually wouldn't think of as computers like routers, e-readers, cell phones (andriod runs on top of a linux kernel), cars, kiosks, and POS terminals.

If you include these devices I wouldn't be surprised to see that linux was the most populous OS in the world.

On the desktop for a consumer OS it just doesn't seem to reach out much beyond the geeks... I use BSD though because it is much better than Linux *takes cover to dodge the penguins*

01-18-2011, 02:52 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote

... I use BSD though because it is much better than Linux *takes cover to dodge the penguins*
Ha, I too think *BSD systems are cleaner and easier to administrate.
01-18-2011, 02:57 PM   #81
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QuoteQuote:
Some of it is because MS's hands have been tied by regulators in the US and the EU but I would say there is a lot fewer cases of MS cock blocking small time developers with good ideas these days.
So you're saying because they were so bad they caught the attention of the courts, now they don't do that anymore. You know, once you get caught cheating on your income taxes, they audit you more often. Of course you are better.

QuoteQuote:
MS is much more into competing with their equals like IBM or Oracle than hassling small time developers like apple does with the itunes store.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't IBM own 51% of Apple? But really, Apple doesn't stop you from writing software, they just ask you to follow the specs, they establish. This is like me complaining because Wallmart doesn't sell my pictures. I have a right to sell pictures. I don't have the right to ask Wallmart to sell them. Walmart has the right to sell what they choose. If you're going to take the lazy way out and let Apple do your marketing for you... well there might be a price for that. Anyone can hawk a program for Apples, same as any other company. But if you want to get on iTunes or sell through the App Store. Meet Apple's specs. I don't have a problem with that. What meets spec is often a totally arbitrary decision, and it might be unfair from time to time, which you can avoid, by not taking advantage of Apple's retailing division to do your marketing.

QuoteQuote:
The integrated hardware and software environment would mean that you have a workstation for writing your CAM programs, another workstation for operating the mill, another workstation for writing documents and checking email, another workstation for printing stuff on the plotter, etc... Eventually you have 5-6 physical computers that have virtually the same technical specifications but are certified and supported from thumbscrews to thumbnails by the same company and you have paid vastly different amounts for each one.
That was probably the lamest argument I've ever heard, come on, you can do better.
01-18-2011, 03:02 PM   #82
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The claim that Apple uses the same hardware as Windows machines is misleading to say the least. It may use the same inners, but look at an aliminium Macbook alongside a windows laptop, or an iMac along side a windows desktop. The design quality is not even close.

01-18-2011, 03:14 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't IBM own 51% of Apple?
No. They were on the verge of buying Apple outright in the mid 90's though. And the were partners with Apple in the AIM alliance and cofounded Taligent with Apple. Microsoft also doesn't own a percentage of Apple. They made a one time $150 million investment in 1997 that was more symbolic than anything else. I mean poor Apple was down to their last $5 billion, they were beleaguered.
01-18-2011, 03:18 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So you're saying because they were so bad they caught the attention of the courts, now they don't do that anymore. You know, once you get caught cheating on your income taxes, they audit you more often. Of course you are better.
Its just a matter of time before apple draws the attention of regulators and I am quite amazed that they haven't yet.

My biggest problem's with the Apple Way is there approach to mobile devices like the iPhone and iPad. I have never been motivated or hired to write something for OS X.

Their restrictions on how things have to be done are unreasonable, unfair, and politically motivated. The most unreasonable things I can think of is the prohibition of using interpreted code (which Apple apps and some hand picked third-parties are allowed to do) and the prohibition on using third party development tools (which was done due to an apple/adobe feud) because it requires completely different software branches and higher costs for developing for iOS and any other platform. As far as being able to access the apple market without following their rules, good luck charging for an app that can only be loaded onto jailbroken phones.

The fact that at least 10% of iphones are jailbroken should be a pretty strong indicator that the restrictions apple puts on its customers are unpopular.

Why pay a few hundred bucks for a computing device that is in jail? You might feel safe in the jail but at the end of the day you are still in jail...
01-18-2011, 03:48 PM   #85
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....and yet the iphone sells by the truckloads, and people love them. The general public care not about ideaology, they just want devices that are easy to use and just work. Apple delivers on that score.
01-18-2011, 03:52 PM   #86
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I have to admit mikemike, I can't argue that one... old curmugeon that I am, I don't own an iPad or an iPhone and I won't buy anything like Warcraft where I have to pay a monthly fee to use the software. I don't even have an iPod. I like paying attention to my environment. But my step son has an iPhone ( I think it cost him over $70 a month) and no land line. To a certain crowd everything Apple has always been unpopular. So if 10 % are jailbroken..I once overclocked my 601 to 80 mgz, making it the same speed as a 604 which cost a thousand dollars more. I'm sure Apple didn't like that either. I used to be an Apple sales rep, I know what AHs they are and always have been. You don't need to sell me. You just can't convince me anyone else is better. And Steve Jobs working for $1 a year, that's the best marketing ploy ever. Whatever his name is Cook who is replacing him only made $900,000 last year, but got over 5 million in bonuses and 16,5 million in stock options. I helped pay for that. And I'm not batting an eyelash, because I like what they do.
01-18-2011, 05:35 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
The claim that Apple uses the same hardware as Windows machines is misleading to say the least. It may use the same inners, but look at an aliminium Macbook alongside a windows laptop, or an iMac along side a windows desktop. The design quality is not even close.
It's the guts that do the work. The prepschool finish is just bling to attract people who like bling.
01-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #88
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QuoteQuote:
It's the guts that do the work. The prepschool finish is just bling to attract people who like bling.
A rather mindless insult don't you think? There's simply no excuse for having something butt ugly in your house. Bad design is just bad design, no matter what the guts are.
01-18-2011, 06:30 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
The fact that at least 10% of iphones are jailbroken should be a pretty strong indicator that the restrictions apple puts on its customers are unpopular.

Why pay a few hundred bucks for a computing device that is in jail? You might feel safe in the jail but at the end of the day you are still in jail...
Not many share your philosophy. In the last quarter Apple sold roughly 34,570,000 iOS devices. 16,240,000 iPhones, 10,000,000 iPod touches, 7,330,000 iPads & even 1,000,000 Apple TVs. That's an average of 384,111 iOS devices per day over the last quarter.

You can add on top of that 4.13 million Macs. Apple nearly doubled its profits from the same quarter last year and revenue was up $11 billion. International sales accounted for 62% of that revenue.
01-18-2011, 07:34 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
A rather mindless insult don't you think? There's simply no excuse for having something butt ugly in your house. Bad design is just bad design, no matter what the guts are.
And I'd add why draw the line in the sand for computers? Let's be frugal on *all* our purchases and be condescending of anyone who spends more for industrial design on anything. Clothes, furniture and cars come to mind
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