Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-30-2011, 05:48 AM   #1
Veteran Member
uccemebug's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 960
for Canadian Internet users, a petition

Hello, I've got a bit of consumerism activism to suggest.

As many of you will already know (from threads like this one), the CRTC in Canada has abruptly handed Bell (Telco) and Rogers (Cable) the right to extort $ from Internet users in Canada with no new value for the service. Same ol' service, brand new fees--which for many of us might add up to $500-$1000 a year (they want to charge $2/GB on top of the existing monthly fees).

There's a petition with some interesting supporting articles to be found here:

Stop The Meter On Your Internet Use | OpenMedia.ca

There were 40,000 signatories when I signed up on Tuesday, and it's now grown to 100,000. If this interests you, please pass this along to fellow Canadian Internet consumers. Consumer activism has stopped Bell in the past, we can do it again.

Thanks,

02-03-2011, 06:44 PM   #2
Veteran Member
uccemebug's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 960
Original Poster
350,000 people signed that petition. And it looks like we've won.

Sorry about that! Canada reverses metered Internet decision
02-04-2011, 03:23 AM   #3
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS
Posts: 3,262
Holy shit! That actually works up there?
02-04-2011, 04:21 AM   #4
Veteran Member
uccemebug's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 960
Original Poster
It happened about twenty years ago, too. With the phone lines when they tried to double the costs. Same villain at that time, come to think of it.

It always comes down to refusing to pay for things in this country.

02-04-2011, 06:38 AM   #5
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jmschrei's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Calgary, AB
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,407
QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Holy shit! That actually works up there?
Of course there is election speculation in the air, tends to make the government want to look a little more responsive...
02-04-2011, 08:28 AM   #6
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
to hit the average download cap imposed my medium-high level internet packages, you would need to download/stream A LOT, and i mean A LOT

my internet package from rogers has a 60 gig limit, i have never hit that in 2 years since i moved out, and i'm on the internet quite a bit, playing games, streaming movies and downloading things...

this new ruling is affecting the ISP providers that "rent" bandwidth from big companies for a fraction of the cost and then re-sell it to people, only they offer NO download restrictions. Can you really blame the big companies?

people are up with their hands waving, but how many are actually going past 40-50 gigabytes a month

and if they ARE, i am curious as to what it is they actually download or do with their internet.
02-04-2011, 09:56 AM   #7
Pentaxian
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,251
The ISPs are going to be whacked pretty hard because the internet model they have been using for the past 15 or for years is changing very quickly.
Companies such as NetFlix are very high bandwidth users of internet service. I'm not sure how big a movie is on download, but it would surprise me not at all for a person to be able to use a metric buttload of bandwidth if they download a few movies a weekend per month.
Add to that all the video that is coming streamed now, and I suspect the suppliers are rightly concerned about what they have as available bandwidth.

I have a feeling that the activists may have won a battle, but they ultimately will lose the war.
At some point, the suppliers are going to need to do a pretty major overhaul of their networks, and the customer will ultimately have to pay for it.
Look for a pretty major across the board increase in internet rates after the next election, especially if we elect a Liberal government.
For that matter, knowing the Liberal's propensity to tax whatever they can, it wouldn't surprise me at all for a Liberal government to put a special tax on high bandwidth internet users, which in theory would be paid back to the ISPs for the purpose of updating the supply network.
02-04-2011, 11:55 AM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 365
I average 90 gigs a month. In December, when Steam and GOG.com (where games range from the sub-gigabyte to 20-30 gigabytes) had their holiday sales, that number went to almost 300 gigs.

Using Steam, GOG.com or anything that requires large files or many files to be uploaded or downloaded will quickly bring you to the limit.

I'm pissed because my ISP has gone from unlimited, to 25 gigs a month. If it were 250 gigs a month, I wouldn't be mad. For reference, my speed usually allows me to download about 2 gigs an hour. At that rate, 12-13 hours, I would be going into the $2 a gigabyte charge, which is a pure rip-off.

And, yes, I do use bittorent, but not to download movies, or pirated games. I use to watch the TV shows I miss (an episode of Mythbusters is 350 Mb for reference).

02-04-2011, 06:07 PM   #9
Pentaxian
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,251
QuoteOriginally posted by VF-19 Quote
I average 90 gigs a month. In December, when Steam and GOG.com (where games range from the sub-gigabyte to 20-30 gigabytes) had their holiday sales, that number went to almost 300 gigs.

Using Steam, GOG.com or anything that requires large files or many files to be uploaded or downloaded will quickly bring you to the limit.

I'm pissed because my ISP has gone from unlimited, to 25 gigs a month. If it were 250 gigs a month, I wouldn't be mad. For reference, my speed usually allows me to download about 2 gigs an hour. At that rate, 12-13 hours, I would be going into the $2 a gigabyte charge, which is a pure rip-off.

And, yes, I do use bittorent, but not to download movies, or pirated games. I use to watch the TV shows I miss (an episode of Mythbusters is 350 Mb for reference).
Consider that if everyone used service the way you do, the internet would pretty much grind to a halt. Until there are some major upgrades put in place, high usage users are going to pretty much bugger things for everyone.
Perhaps you should be investing in a PVR and recording shows rather than downloading them.
The $2.00 per gb charge is a rip off and it was designed to be a rip off, in much the same way $8.00/pack taxes on cigarettes or the 50% or so tax on booze is a rip off.
These charges are designed to make you back off on your consumption.
It's interesting that the government gets to play social engineering through unfair charges (sin tax) and no one says much of anything, but as soon as a private company tries the same thing, they get stepped on.
Just goes to show the government hates competition.

What will happen now with your provider will probably be the same as what my provider does when I go over my cap.
They throttle back the speed on my modem so that I can't abuse the service.
02-04-2011, 08:17 PM   #10
Veteran Member
uccemebug's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 960
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
knowing the Liberal's propensity to tax whatever they can
Pshhh, like there's any difference at all between successive governments in this country.

I signed up with a provider this week that was moving from unlimited to 25GB. I don't have records for my usage of late because I was living in Japan where the infrastructure is good enough that trivial residential usage is irrelevant. I'm pretty sure that I would have hit that 25GB limit every month doing things like: sharing files with partners, suppliers, and clients over Dropbox; streaming TV for our son; running many-hours calls on Skype; etc etc. To my mind I think the worse issue is what signal does this send to Canadian companies that might want to provide something on the Internet. This kind of cap would tell those entrepreneurs that Canada's not the spot.
02-04-2011, 09:54 PM   #11
Pentaxian
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,251
QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Pshhh, like there's any difference at all between successive governments in this country.
Actually, there is, you just have to pay a modicum of attention to the politics of the nation to see it.
QuoteQuote:
I signed up with a provider this week that was moving from unlimited to 25GB. I don't have records for my usage of late because I was living in Japan where the infrastructure is good enough that trivial residential usage is irrelevant. I'm pretty sure that I would have hit that 25GB limit every month doing things like: sharing files with partners, suppliers, and clients over Dropbox; streaming TV for our son; running many-hours calls on Skype; etc etc. To my mind I think the worse issue is what signal does this send to Canadian companies that might want to provide something on the Internet. This kind of cap would tell those entrepreneurs that Canada's not the spot.
There's no doubt that Canada's got just about the worst high speed internet in the world, I suspect to a certain extent that it goes with the territory (specifically the amount of it that we have).
Canada is some 26 times larger than Japan (Japan is about 1/3 the area of Ontario).
So, if we are going to entice entrepreneurs who want to make heavy use of the internet to Canada, we need to improve our internet infrastructure.
Who pays?
And where do you think the money is going to come from?
02-05-2011, 04:57 AM   #12
Veteran Member
uccemebug's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 960
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Actually, there is, you just have to pay a modicum of attention to the politics of the nation to see it.
Having lived abroad on two occasions I'm come to appreciate how well governed Canada actually is and how minor the differences are between the parties. The major policies have been pretty seamlessly carried forth by every successive government for years. No one's really made significant changes to:
+ level of military commitment and policy positions abroad
+ propping up aging industries
+ appeasing regional interests
+ relying on immigration to prop up low domestic birth-rates via hand-picked groups based on "points"*
+ slowly realizing that we have a north
+ keeping disruptive forces such as crime and hate in check

*(and then failing to capitalize on those immigrants, but not as badly as everyone else)

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
So, if we are going to entice entrepreneurs who want to make heavy use of the internet to Canada, we need to improve our internet infrastructure.
Who pays?
And where do you think the money is going to come from?
We the public already paid once, in essence, during Bell's quasi-public era. The mistake recently has been to rely on companies with media ambitions in providing the infrastructure. I've worked for two of Bell's units over the years (Internet and mobile) and know how little innovation and actual service delivery matter to the powers that be. It's time to continue the trend initiated with the liberalization of the mobile market and let small infra-only operators innovate and build alternatives.
02-05-2011, 06:30 AM   #13
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS
Posts: 3,262
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
There's no doubt that Canada's got just about the worst high speed internet in the world, I suspect to a certain extent that it goes with the territory (specifically the amount of it that we have).
Pretty sure Australia's the worst, at least in the developed world (thanks, Liberals!)

QuoteQuote:
Canada is some 26 times larger than Japan (Japan is about 1/3 the area of Ontario).
So, if we are going to entice entrepreneurs who want to make heavy use of the internet to Canada, we need to improve our internet infrastructure.
Who pays?
And where do you think the money is going to come from?
I thought Canada was building a better network, like our NBN?
02-05-2011, 08:50 AM   #14
Veteran Member




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 365
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Consider that if everyone used service the way you do, the internet would pretty much grind to a halt. Until there are some major upgrades put in place, high usage users are going to pretty much bugger things for everyone.
Perhaps you should be investing in a PVR and recording shows rather than downloading them.
The $2.00 per gb charge is a rip off and it was designed to be a rip off, in much the same way $8.00/pack taxes on cigarettes or the 50% or so tax on booze is a rip off.
These charges are designed to make you back off on your consumption.
It's interesting that the government gets to play social engineering through unfair charges (sin tax) and no one says much of anything, but as soon as a private company tries the same thing, they get stepped on.
Just goes to show the government hates competition.

What will happen now with your provider will probably be the same as what my provider does when I go over my cap.
They throttle back the speed on my modem so that I can't abuse the service.
I would like to point out, that in other countries, the internet is usually faster, and either for the same price, or cheaper. Heck, most caps are bigger too.

What the companies need to do is wake up, and invest in the network. My speed has not increased at all in the 5 years I've been using broadband.

Also, in my defence, the internet is cheaper than a cable bill. Much, much cheaper.
02-05-2011, 09:11 AM   #15
Pentaxian
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,251
QuoteOriginally posted by VF-19 Quote

What the companies need to do is wake up, and invest in the network. My speed has not increased at all in the 5 years I've been using broadband.

I think we are in agreement on this, the question is, who pays?
Ultimately, it will be the consumer, and it won't be cheap.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
activism, bell, canada, internet, petition, service, users
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SDM Petition - Let's start a fire. LeDave Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 107 12-01-2013 09:17 PM
SDM Petition - REMINDER- bc_the_path Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 01-14-2010 06:52 PM
Canadian Pentax users: Who else is disillusioned? enoxatnep Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 37 04-27-2009 11:23 AM
Orphan Works Petition nathancombs Photographic Technique 7 06-21-2008 09:59 PM
Starting a Petition benjikan Pentax News and Rumors 22 05-24-2007 12:45 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:57 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top