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01-31-2011, 06:10 PM   #1
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My Apologies For Egypt

As one of the two token Jews here (the other is Pablom from Israel), I just want to offer my early apologies for the actions that Israel may take in response to the chaos in Egypt.

And the very real possibility that the Muslim Brotherhood takes power there.

Again, we're sorry. But if Israel has to destroy a newly-directed military that's vowed to destroy them, please excuse them for taking action first and leveling them back to the Pharaoh's times--which let's face it, is only maybe 50 years back.

I also apologize that these Jews are not going to give up and die for Islamic fanaticism.

Fortunately, the U.S. supplied much of Egypt's aircraft:

Easily made useless by the U.S. pulling the switch...linked to the satellites...and turning the brains of those aircraft into spaghetti.

01-31-2011, 06:18 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
As one of the two token Jews here (the other is Pablom from Israel), I just want to offer my early apologies for the actions that Israel may take in response to the chaos in Egypt.

And the very real possibility that the Muslim Brotherhood takes power there.

Again, we're sorry. But if Israel has to destroy a newly-directed military that's vowed to destroy them, please excuse them for taking action first and leveling them back to the Pharaoh's times--which let's face it, is only maybe 50 years back.

I also apologize that these Jews are not going to give up and die for Islamic fanaticism.

Fortunately, the U.S. supplied much of Egypt's aircraft:

Easily made useless by the U.S. pulling the switch...linked to the satellites...and turning the brains of those aircraft into spaghetti.
Jewish Republicans gotta love-em.......
Do Egyptians Want Both Democracy And A Role For Religion In Their Government?
QuoteQuote:
The world is watching closely to see what kind of country may emerge from the latest popular revolt to rock the Arab world. Yet in the United States, the conversation -- as usual when it comes to the Middle East -- seems fixated on the singular issue of Islam, and more specifically, on the role that the Muslim Brotherhood may play in Egypt's future. GOP presidential hopeful Rick Santorum is already drawing parallels between the young protesters calling for an end to the brutal and repressive Mubarak regime, and the popular protests that, three decades ago, brought down another despicable dictator and former American ally, the Shah of Iran. "We abandoned [the Shah] and what we got in exchange was ... a radical Islamist regime," Santorum said. Mike Huckabee, another GOP presidential hopeful, joined in the hysteria, warning Americans that, "If in fact the Muslim Brotherhood is underneath much of the unrest [in Egypt] every person who breathes ought to be concerned."
So we should invade Egypt?????
QuoteQuote:
First of all, it should be noted that the Muslim Brotherhood neither launched the revolt against Mubarak (on the contrary, it was quite late in joining it), nor is it now leading it. Although the Brotherhood remains the largest and most organized opposition movement in Egypt, the demonstrations that have caught the world's attention were instigated by tens of thousands of mostly unemployed Egyptian youths who, in providing the most significant challenge to Mubarak's regime in decades, have utterly displaced the more traditional opposition groups in Egypt, including the Muslim Brotherhood. As the Egyptian scholar Emad Shahin told the New York Times,

"The Brotherhood is no longer the most effective player in the political arena... [This is] a youth uprising. It is the youth that knows how to use the media, Internet, Facebook, so there are other players now."

At the very least, the youth in Egypt have demonstrated that they do not need the assistance of the Brotherhood and its somewhat ossified institutions to turn the masses onto the streets.

But make no mistake, however the current uprising in Egypt turns out, there can be no doubt that the Muslim Brotherhood will have a significant role to play in post-Mubarak Egypt. And that is good thing.......... read rest......
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/reza_aslan/2011/01/relig...?hpid=talkbox1
QuoteQuote:
El-Baradei has rightly brushed aside American fears about the Muslim Brotherhood. "They are a religiously conservative group, no question about it, but they also represent about 20 percent of the Egyptian people," he said. "And how can you exclude 20 percent of the Egyptian people?" Even American analysts like Bruce Reidel, a former CIA officer and head of President Obama's 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan Policy Review, has rejected the utterly preposterous notion that the Brotherhood want to turn Egypt into another Iran. "[We] should not be afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood," he said. "Living with it won't be easy but it should not be seen as inevitably our enemy."

For decades the United States has swallowed Mubarak's lie that his anti-democratic policies are necessary, that even the slightest weakening of his oppressive, authoritarian regime would result in the immediate takeover by radical Islamists bent on turning into another Afghanistan under the Taliban. The United Nations has dubbed this specious and absurd argument a "legitimacy of blackmail." Now, the same lie is being peddled to Americans by people like Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum, two men whose views on the role of religion and politics are almost identical to those of the Muslim Brotherhood.

How much longer are we going to fall for it?
as well as.............
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/31/world/main7302485.shtml?tag=topnews

Last edited by jeffkrol; 01-31-2011 at 06:34 PM.
01-31-2011, 06:53 PM   #3
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In 2006, when members of the Brotherhood were first given the opportunity to run for elected office, they proved themselves perfectly capable of responsible governance. Far from trying to transform Egypt into a theocracy, as Arab rulers and western ideologues predicted they would, the Brotherhood fully embraced the principles of democracy by creating political alliances with liberal intellectuals and secular democrats in the Egyptian to lobby for greater political freedoms, including freedom of religion, assembly and speech.

On Faith Panelists Blog: Do Egyptians want both democracy and a role for religion in their government? - Reza Aslan

A-The need to inform the masses, Muslims and non-Muslims of Islamic teachings, explaining the signs in detail to those who understand the pure human nature upon which Allah Has created man.

Distinguish the universality of Islam, in addition to refuting fallacy.

B - Endeavor to purify the hearts and souls of men from sin and evil. Unify humankind into the fundamental principles of Islam and bringing closer the viewpoints of the Islamic sects.

C - Make efforts to raise the standard of living of marginalized people and contribute to the further growth and development of the nation's wealth.

D - Achieve social justice and expand social insurance to cover every citizen. Fight poverty, disease, ignorance, hunger, depravity, encourage, and invite others towards virtue, righteousness and piety.

E - Insist to liberate the Islamic nation from the yoke of foreign rule, help safeguard the rights of Muslims everywhere and unite Muslims around the world.
E - The need to work on establishing the Islamic State, which seeks to effectively implement the provisions of Islam and its teachings.
Defend the nation against the internal enemies, try to present the true teachings of Islam and communicate its ideas to the world.

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=22687


Makes you wonder if the media actually researches what the Muslim Brotherhood actually believes?
01-31-2011, 06:59 PM   #4
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All 20% of them........???
substitute "Christian" and put this back to the Crusades (or Alabama ) is a fun exercise

01-31-2011, 07:18 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
All 20% of them........???
substitute "Christian" and put this back to the Crusades (or Alabama ) is a fun exercise
Eighteen percent of Americans consider themselves to be supporters of the Tea Party movement while 62 percent do not, with 20 percent undecided, and the muddled nature of perceptions of the movement is reflected in the finding that 25 percent believe it represents the views of most of the public while 36 percent do not and 37 percent don't know, according to a CBS News/New York Times poll conducted April 5-12.

18 Percent of Americans Say They Are Supporters of the Tea Party Movement


I will do you one better and say how does the left and you react to the tea party and they make up 18% so then by your standard the tea party should be accepted and encouraged because hey they are less than the 20% Muslim Brotherhood and they don't pose any sort of threat. Is that your stance or did I get it wrong?

Just for the record I am opposed to any government based on any form of religion, separation of church and state should be the universal rule if there is anything that need to be nonreligious it is government
01-31-2011, 07:19 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
As one of the two token Jews here (the other is Pablom from Israel), I just want to offer my early apologies for the actions that Israel may take in response to the chaos in Egypt.

And the very real possibility that the Muslim Brotherhood takes power there.

Again, we're sorry. But if Israel has to destroy a newly-directed military that's vowed to destroy them, please excuse them for taking action first and leveling them back to the Pharaoh's times--which let's face it, is only maybe 50 years back.

I also apologize that these Jews are not going to give up and die for Islamic fanaticism.

Fortunately, the U.S. supplied much of Egypt's aircraft:

Easily made useless by the U.S. pulling the switch...linked to the satellites...and turning the brains of those aircraft into spaghetti.
Hey, Ira, how about speaking for yourself? Who exactly appointed you the spokesman for Israel or Jews, huh? Gotta love armchair warriors spewing b.s. from their safe Florida homes.
01-31-2011, 07:25 PM   #7
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This could easily become a thread of nasty exchanges and snide remarks, so let's go easy.
As the country of my parent's origin, Egypt has had its share of political issues - part of the reason for so many Egyptians living out of Egypt (such as my parents). It's going to be a little more complicated than anti-semitism and an Islamic brotherhood coup being the outcome of the current rioting. Granted there is a vast majority of muslims in the country, and democracy would have a muslim leader elected for Egypt, but the asserting party this long-term expat Egyptian is leading has dubious legitimacy.

Technically banned under Egypt's constitution that forbids religious based parties, the Muslim Brotherhood is now throwing its support behind Mohammed el Baradei as an opposition leader - Just What Is The Muslim Brotherhood? - FoxNews.com

There are so many mixed messages going on, but Egypt is quite pivotal for Middle East peace so it behooves the world to pay attention and at least promote diplomacy between all the important figures currently vying for power...

Egypt protesters play down Islamist party's role | World news | The Guardian

Nevertheless the Brotherhood principles aren't benign, and significant hidden agendas may prove unsavoury to the peace process and good international relations:

The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community and state". Since its inception in 1928 the movement has officially opposed violent means to achieve its goals, with some exceptions such as in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or to overthrow secular Ba'athist rule in Syria (see Hama massacre). This position has been questioned, particularly by the Egyptian government, which accused the group of a campaign of killings in Egypt after World War II.

The Muslim Brotherhood is banned in Egypt, and members have been arrested for their participation in it. As a means of circumventing the ban, supporters run for office as independents.

Outside Egypt, the group's political activity has been described as evolving away from modernism and reformism towards a more traditional, "rightist conservative secular" stance. The Brotherhood condemned terrorism and the 9/11 attacks, but whether or not it has ties to terrorism is a matter of dispute. Its position on violence has also caused disputes within the movement, with advocates of violence at times breaking away to form groups such as the Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (The Islamic Group) and Al Takfir Wal Hijra (Excommunication and Migration).


Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood Leader: "Prepare for War with Israel" - Atlas Shrugs
01-31-2011, 08:50 PM   #8
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I'd encourage all participants here to at least try to be civil in this discussion.
The initial post is itself teetering on the border of being inflammatory but let's continue the discussion about the issue and facts at hand.


Last edited by Ash; 02-01-2011 at 03:53 AM.
01-31-2011, 10:06 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
No. This kind of retaliative response is uncalled for.
Please desist from making such disparaging remarks.
You're a good man Ash
02-01-2011, 03:03 AM   #10
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Kinda fun listening to the US administration fumble around with this: Biden says Mubarak should stay. Hillary says ' an orderly transition", The WH dude says we don't take sides but want "an orderly transition" WTF is THAT??? The real fun part is that we have a Carter clone that should be an expert at giving canals away driving our bus.

Egypt is well armed as we are a key military suppliers to them. I hope the Egyptians maintain cool heads through this deal. I also hope Isreal stays away as they did in the Iraqi wars. Too much to loose and peace with Egypt has been a blessing to Isreal and Egypt these last 30 or so years.
02-01-2011, 05:39 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Phil1 Quote
Kinda fun listening to the US administration fumble around with this: Biden says Mubarak should stay. Hillary says ' an orderly transition", The WH dude says we don't take sides but want "an orderly transition" WTF is THAT??? The real fun part is that we have a Carter clone that should be an expert at giving canals away driving our bus.

Egypt is well armed as we are a key military suppliers to them. I hope the Egyptians maintain cool heads through this deal. I also hope Isreal stays away as they did in the Iraqi wars. Too much to loose and peace with Egypt has been a blessing to Isreal and Egypt these last 30 or so years.
Phil, I am sure you understand how delicate the politics are regarding what is going on there right now and I am sure there is more to come. Quite frankly, no other major countries have taken a hard concrete stand regarding asking for Mubarak to leave or oppositely making any statements about asking him to remain in power and for the people to back down. I think what Gibbs means by "orderly transition" is referring to what has already happened as far as changes in the governing body, i.e., cabinet resigned, new ones being appointed as we speak, new VP and other. I think that is what is meant by the "transition". As far as Obama coming out and asking for him to resign would be silly as I dont think it's the USA's business, nor anyone else's to dictate what should happen in that country as far as leadership is concerned. Understanding Egypt in general as an ally to the USA is one thing regardless of the fact Mubarak is seen as a dictator, but calling for his resignation would be crass and could come back as major backfire if this blows over.
I dont think anyone wants to see this thing blow up into a full fledged lawless revolution with the deaths, looting and economic disaster which usually accompany such a thing. I dont think Israel wants a new problem to be on guard over. I dont think Europe wants to see a mass influx of refugees if this thing goes terribly awry, but one thing I personally am happy about and that is to date, there is no firm stance by the USA or any other major country which has relations with Egypt, to come out and try to make some bold statement. Not only at this point would that be premature, but for once we aren't trying to position ourselves as opportunists ready to appear as savior and messiah to a country we have no business in or being terribly involved in other than a peaceful acknowledge of their existence.

Jason
02-01-2011, 07:42 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Phil, I am sure you understand how delicate the politics are regarding what is going on there right now and I am sure there is more to come. Quite frankly, no other major countries have taken a hard concrete stand regarding asking for Mubarak to leave or oppositely making any statements about asking him to remain in power and for the people to back down. I think what Gibbs means by "orderly transition" is referring to what has already happened as far as changes in the governing body, i.e., cabinet resigned, new ones being appointed as we speak, new VP and other. I think that is what is meant by the "transition". As far as Obama coming out and asking for him to resign would be silly as I dont think it's the USA's business, nor anyone else's to dictate what should happen in that country as far as leadership is concerned. Understanding Egypt in general as an ally to the USA is one thing regardless of the fact Mubarak is seen as a dictator, but calling for his resignation would be crass and could come back as major backfire if this blows over.
I dont think anyone wants to see this thing blow up into a full fledged lawless revolution with the deaths, looting and economic disaster which usually accompany such a thing. I dont think Israel wants a new problem to be on guard over. I dont think Europe wants to see a mass influx of refugees if this thing goes terribly awry, but one thing I personally am happy about and that is to date, there is no firm stance by the USA or any other major country which has relations with Egypt, to come out and try to make some bold statement. Not only at this point would that be premature, but for once we aren't trying to position ourselves as opportunists ready to appear as savior and messiah to a country we have no business in or being terribly involved in other than a peaceful acknowledge of their existence.

Jason
Quite true. Once again, we have an administration trying to deal with chickens from many prior administrations who dealt with an undemocratic government coming home to roost. It is not amusing or fun or something to be taken lightly, but it will be interesting to see what lessons were learned from Iran.
02-01-2011, 08:05 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Phil1 Quote
Kinda fun listening to the US administration fumble around with this: Biden says Mubarak should stay.
And Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum... seems the rest of the repub "leadership" just says... ehhhhh???? huuuhhhh?
OK update:
QuoteQuote:
Although the GOP has amassed a laundry list of complaints regarding President Barack Obama's job performance, Republican leaders have praised the White House for its cautious approach to the growing unrest in Egypt.

Many critics, including some Democratic lawmakers, have urged the President to call for the end of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's 30-year reign. However, Obama and his cabinet — including Secretary of State Hilary Clinton — instead have advocated for an "orderly transition that is responsive to the aspirations of the Egyptian people.”

Appearing on FOX News Sunday on Jan. 30, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said that now is not the time for the United States government to be calling for a new leader in Egypt.

"The administration, our administration, so far has handled this tense situation pretty well," Boehner told the news provider. "Clearly, reforms need to occur in Egypt."
http://www.personalliberty.com/news/boehner-gop-support-cautious-approach-to...sts-800375010/
02-01-2011, 09:50 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Phil1 Quote
........... Hillary says ' an orderly transition", ..........
Actually, that was just a little misunderstanding on Hillary's part. The question was "Should Mubarak be out?"; she thought the question was "Should we move Barak out.
02-01-2011, 09:50 AM   #15
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I certainly agree. I think the EU would have much to loose with any canal disruptions for obvious reasons add the disruption of oil movement etc.

"" I personally am happy about and that is to date, there is no firm stance by the USA or any other major country which has relations with Egypt, to come out and try to make some bold statement.""

Did we miss or give a pass to the Court Jester Biden's comments? Just askin.
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