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02-15-2011, 02:09 PM - 4 Likes   #1
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I'm just so upset… (Slight pro-film rant)

Hello, I thought that this might be the best place to post this, and I apologize for the ranting attitude.

I read on the Kodachrome Wikipedia article that former Kodak CMO Jeffery Hayzlett's mission while at Kodak was to make film a thing of the past. All I could think of when I read that was (every derogatory expletive in the book). My aunt told me at Christmas that film needs to disappear. I've also heard this from several other people who think it's odd that I still shoot film.

I get so upset every time I hear someone say "Film needs to disappear!" Have people forgotten that the best movies/the most iconic pictures were all shot on film? I heard a terrifying story from my uncle who shot a picture of his friend's young daughter with his film camera and then the kid thought that she would get to see a digital image in the camera. Is this the terrible, sterile, mediocre world of the 21st century that's to come?

Hearing "Film needs to disappear!" makes me want to take a baseball bat to every digital camera I see (sometimes I even want to turn on my lovely K-x, but I would regret having then thrown away $500). I really hope that film doesn't die because of 100% digital Philistinery. (Yes, that's right, I call 100% digital people Philistines). Film has declined because people are cheapskates. There are Philistine jerks that want film to disappear all in the name of "progress" and profit, like Jeffery Hayzlett.

If film were to disappear, it would be like my childhood vanishing right before my eyes. Sometimes I just hate the 21st century.

Grr… I needed to vent that.

02-15-2011, 02:14 PM   #2
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Feel better now that you have insulted the majority of the forum members?

Last edited by Parallax; 02-16-2011 at 11:00 AM.
02-15-2011, 03:21 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by TexasLangGenius Quote
Hello, I thought that this might be the best place to post this, and I apologize for the ranting attitude.

I read on the Kodachrome Wikipedia article that former Kodak CMO Jeffery Hayzlett's mission while at Kodak was to make film a thing of the past. All I could think of when I read that was (every derogatory expletive in the book). My aunt told me at Christmas that film needs to disappear. I've also heard this from several other people who think it's odd that I still shoot film.

I get so upset every time I hear someone say "Film needs to disappear!" Have people forgotten that the best movies/the most iconic pictures were all shot on film? I heard a terrifying story from my uncle who shot a picture of his friend's young daughter with his film camera and then the kid thought that she would get to see a digital image in the camera. Is this the terrible, sterile, mediocre world of the 21st century that's to come?

Hearing "Film needs to disappear!" makes me want to take a baseball bat to every digital camera I see (sometimes I even want to turn on my lovely K-x, but I would regret having then thrown away $500). I really hope that film doesn't die because of 100% digital Philistinery. (Yes, that's right, I call 100% digital people Philistines). Film has declined because people are cheapskates. There are Philistine jerks that want film to disappear all in the name of "progress" and profit, like Jeffery Hayzlett.

If film were to disappear, it would be like my childhood vanishing right before my eyes. Sometimes I just hate the 21st century.

Grr… I needed to vent that.


Added rep points - not because I agree with you (I don't,), but because it's nice to run across folks with strong ties to the medium of film.

(and FWIW I don't feel insulted.)

.
02-15-2011, 03:45 PM   #4
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The presence of film per se doesn't affect digital shooters one bit. I suspect that the only, or, one of the major reasons, anybody would say something like "film needs to die" is the presence of certain types of film supremacists who aren't shy to insult digital shooters and digital cameras.

I shoot both, though recently I've been shooting film more and more. Rather than going berserk, you might try explaining, and perhaps even showing such people why film still can be considered viable, if not necessarily superior to digital.

I do it all the time. And I never fail to impress those who would listen. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that I will have a 5D Mk2 in one hand and a Hasselblad SWC/M in the other when I do the explanation (LOL). It also helps that I have a portfolio that clearly shows my point. But the most important point is that you show respect for both media, for all kinds of shooters. Yes, even if they're the ones being the bigots.

02-15-2011, 04:00 PM   #5
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I've never heard the phrase, however, I could never go back to shooting film as a hobby.
02-15-2011, 04:18 PM   #6
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Hi all,

I am truly sorry about calling everyone who's 100% digital a Philistine. It's just that reading Jeffery Hayzlett's words made me snap like a twig. I bet he has dreams about getting rid of Super 8 and 16mm. My rage was directed at (mostly) him and I apologize for hurting other's feelings. It's just that I get a lot of that "Film should disappear" crap from everybody and after a while the rage just builds.

I am very hesitant to go 100% digital and just kick film by the wayside. Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle against snotty younger people (and I mean people who are younger than me by 10 years or more, since I'm almost 30) and older people who kicked film to the curb (like my aunt). One time I got laughed at for asking for slide film at the camera shop and it took all the inner strength I had to not bite people's heads off.

Once again, I am sorry if I insulted any all-digital people, but I am very passionate about film. It helped me improve my photography and really helped me get into it.

Last edited by TexasLangGenius; 02-16-2011 at 01:15 PM.
02-15-2011, 04:34 PM   #7
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you might also remind people that if film was to disappear so would a lot of the movies they watch and a surprising number of tv programs have been shot on film because it is more forgiving than HD (at least at the beginning of the HD era, that is changing)
I shoot both film and digital. if i need to shoot an event i will always shoot digital, film costs to much and the turnaround people want on events is too short for film
on the other hand when shooting for myself i like to shoot film (and am going to look at another medium format camera tomorrow)

Jeffrey is gone now, Kodak has seen a rise in film sales and have pledged support (at least for the foreseeable short term)
so take a deep breath and go out and shoot a roll and all will be well

02-16-2011, 10:58 AM   #8
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I don't like the idea that "film needs to disappear" but the reality is that it will for the most part. The younger kids growing up today will most likely never touch a roll of film in their lives. From a nostalgia standpoint, I hope it sticks around for a while. Reality - I haven't shot a roll in a long time. While a few of us shoot a roll from time to time, there is no longer a demand large enough for it to be a profit making business for large corporations. Without that demand, the manufacture and processing of film will become a niche market.
02-16-2011, 11:12 AM   #9
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Young people (ie under 25 which is a child to me) are actually the reason for any growth in film in the last couple of years. as much as i am not a huge fan of them holgas have really done a lot to bring people into the film community.

those same people frequently move on to "real " cameras. when researching a pending purchase of a mamiya super 23 - today if all goes well meeting at 4(almost as old as me but not quite) i came across a guy on flickr who went from a Holga and lubitel to one of these. hell of a jump in complexity, i'm looking at the camera with trepidation myself and I've owned and used an awful lot of cameras over the years
02-16-2011, 01:04 PM   #10
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I will shoot film like mad for a long time to come (especially after I buy a dedicated film scanner) and continue to fight against anti-film ignorance into the future (in a less ranting and ragey way, of course). The art community will keep film alive.

Hearing that story about my uncle shooting pictures of his friend's little daughter really terrified me, though; all because of the cheapness of someone being able to shoot 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 pictures without having to learn from any mistakes, to post them immediately to a shallow Facebook page and gripe about how they had to pick up a book and read it for school (I hate Facebook, by the way).

In several years the people will have to replace their outdated models with the latest one not realizing that when they do, they will have probably spent as much as an average film shooter did in prints, etc, while cameras like my grandfather's Kodak Brownie made in 1946 still work and take lovely pictures. Digital will never even begin be able to match film's feel…ever.

And whatever happened to patience? The modern world wants to go too fast in my opinion, and that's the reason why modern people get burned out so easily: they go too fast. That goes for workplace demand, etc. We need to chill the freak out and slow down. That's why modern people make so many mistakes.

I feel like my uncle who gave me my K1000. He said that sometimes he doesn't even recognize the world anymore, that it has changed too dramatically, especially since the dawn of the 21st century.

Last edited by TexasLangGenius; 02-16-2011 at 01:13 PM.
02-16-2011, 01:24 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by TexasLangGenius Quote
...........

And whatever happened to patience? The modern world wants to go too fast in my opinion, and that's the reason why modern people get burned out so easily: they go too fast. That goes for workplace demand, etc. We need to chill the freak out and slow down. That's why modern people make so many mistakes.

.........
I'll bet a lot of people said nearly the exact thing when those dang new-fangled horseless carriages started hitting the market.

Last edited by Parallax; 02-16-2011 at 02:41 PM.
02-16-2011, 01:37 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by TexasLangGenius Quote
I will shoot film like mad for a long time to come (especially after I buy a dedicated film scanner) and continue to fight against anti-film ignorance into the future (in a less ranting and ragey way, of course). The art community will keep film alive.

Hearing that story about my uncle shooting pictures of his friend's little daughter really terrified me, though; all because of the cheapness of someone being able to shoot 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 pictures without having to learn from any mistakes, to post them immediately to a shallow Facebook page and gripe about how they had to pick up a book and read it for school (I hate Facebook, by the way).

In several years the people will have to replace their outdated models with the latest one not realizing that when they do, they will have probably spent as much as an average film shooter did in prints, etc, while cameras like my grandfather's Kodak Brownie made in 1946 still work and take lovely pictures. Digital will never even begin be able to match film's feel…ever.

And whatever happened to patience? The modern world wants to go too fast in my opinion, and that's the reason why modern people get burned out so easily: they go too fast. That goes for workplace demand, etc. We need to chill the freak out and slow down. That's why modern people make so many mistakes.

I feel like my uncle who gave me my K1000. He said that sometimes he doesn't even recognize the world anymore, that it has changed too dramatically, especially since the dawn of the 21st century.
I shoot film myself, but your viewpoint is way out there mate. you are overreacting and taking things way too seriously. painters said the same as you about photography, photographers said the same about 35mm film, film developers said the same thing about minilabs and 1hour developing. you see where Im going here? film will be around for a long while. probably longer than the camera(s) you are using since ultimately like a very old watch, the parts and knowledgable and skilled technicians to fix them will not be around forever. everything moves on and changes. sometimes for the better sometimes not, but its always changing. you want to avoid the changes? nobody is forcing you into them, nobody is forcing you to be ‘modern’. film is still around, the chemicals and supplies to develop the film is still around, the cameras that use them are still around. it will all be around for a long, long time. use them, and let other people use what they want, think what they think and enjoy photography in their way. photography is focused light on a light sensitive material to get an image. as long as thats still happening in some way, its still photography, no matter the medium of capture or how the focusing of light is done.
02-16-2011, 02:02 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
I shoot film myself, but your viewpoint is way out there mate. you are overreacting and taking things way too seriously.
You are right, for the most part. But I don't like it when all-digital people tell me off for shooting film (I do shoot digital, too by the way) and how people like Jeffery Hayzlett want to destroy the medium, all just to line their pockets.

Now that I've heard some voices of reason, I can finally calm down. I don't have too many places to express an opinion like I have, but hearing what Jeffery Hayzlett's ultimate dream was while he was at Kodak really set me off. And when I get set off, I go until I run out of steam.

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-change; but I appreciate the past and I hate to see people disregard it such a disdainful manner like I've seen a lot of people do recently.

How about we all call a truce?
02-16-2011, 02:54 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by TexasLangGenius Quote
You are right, for the most part. But I don't like it when all-digital people tell me off for shooting film (I do shoot digital, too by the way) and how people like Jeffery Hayzlett want to destroy the medium, all just to line their pockets.

Now that I've heard some voices of reason, I can finally calm down. I don't have too many places to express an opinion like I have, but hearing what Jeffery Hayzlett's ultimate dream was while he was at Kodak really set me off. And when I get set off, I go until I run out of steam.

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-change; but I appreciate the past and I hate to see people disregard it such a disdainful manner like I've seen a lot of people do recently.

How about we all call a truce?
hey mate, im not against you at all. an a lot of ways, im very much ilke you. I hate it when people say “why do you wear a watch? my cell phone tells the time just fine.” really, christ almighty what a revolution! or “why don’t you have a cell phone, its 2010(11), everyone has a cellphone.” im 26. I wear a watch from the 60s (my oldest is from the 1830’s) I carry cameras from the 50s and 60s, I listen to music on a turntable cranking tunes from the 20s through the 70s (yup I have 78s from as early as the mid 20s) I don’t own TV, I believe a man should wear a hat or cap when he’s out. I believe in slow pace and quality. yet I love my ipod touch, my macbook pro, my Pentax k-7, etc, etc. I hate when people do the same to me as they do to you, but I let it go as simple young ignorance, or in the case of people older than me just plain ignorance. though its always a lack of appreciation for the past and how it has contributed to the present and the future.

but at the end of the day, you just have to take joy in what you like and how you like to do things and let everyone else do as they like and think how they like. there will always be people butchering and trying to destroy the past in the name of the future and ‘progress’ but as the old saying goes “history always repeats itself.” or rather the historians repeat one another.
02-16-2011, 03:39 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by TexasLangGenius Quote
Jeffery Hayzlett's ultimate dream was while he was at Kodak really set me off.
Of course, Hayzlett had to be looking at it from the point of view of Kodak growth and survival. Had the kill off film thing been truly executed, at this point I think Kodak would be a has been - so despite the rhetoric, I doubt his aim was to kill off film. Rather, to convince Kodak internally as well as the big investors externally, that some sort of new direction had to come for Kodak, in order to remain a major corporation.

Other than that, statements like these - or their opposites - are either familiar ego games (You shoot Pentax?!!? instead of a Real Camera like my Canikon) or moments of emotional anguish... in the former case, we wiser Pentaxians or filmers know to pity the fools (and their wives/children ) and in the latter case, we can surely emphathise...
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