[shooz]

How would you propose to eliminate those monopolies?
They are here now.

[Nesster]

I don't think that acknowledges the big picture. Corporatism functions more like socialism than many want to admit.

Publicly owned corporations are essentially governments regardless of whether they are owned by a "state." A large, dominant public corporation has most of the ills of a socialist state. It seeks to eliminate competition and often does so successfully. It is owned by millions of people whose vote is diluted such that actual control ends up with the bureaucrats who enrich themselves. It has no conscience. It seeks to dominate the individual and other governments. Again, many of these aspects were of concern to Adam Smith 200 years ago in writing capitalist theory.

Gene, there's a big difference - Corporatism within each corporation works like socialist govenance - but overall the structure is not centrally planned or controlled across corporations - but rather, the reverse tends to happen, corporations influence and control the political government.

The corporatist alarm over 'socialism' is largely the resistance to threats to their sovereign autonomy as part of 'the market', the prospect that society / political government may decide on a course that isn't congruent to the corporation's self-identified best interest, and a cultural reaction to the distressingly messy way democracy works (as opposed to the usually orderly and controlled inner workings of a corporation).

[ConstIva]

PS. they also control the propaganda

What propaganda are you talking about?
Propaganda of Capitalism?
Propaganda of Socialism?

As far as I know, the only moderate, not rabidly "progressive" channel on TV is Fox News (even though in last two years it visibly became a lot more "pro-Democratic").
All others, so-called "mainstream media" - MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBC, NY Times, LA Times, and so forth and so on - are RABIDLY Liberal: they are spreading nothing but anti-Conservative propaganda.

So, my question to you is this:
Is the anti-Conservative propaganda a Capitalist propaganda or a Socialist propaganda?

[shooz]

Faux loonynews is nothing BUT propaganda.

See you did buy into it.

[Nesster]

How would you propose to eliminate those monopolies?
They are here now.

Oh wait, I know, I know: the establishment of a socialist politburo and gulags for the dissidents. Either that, or allow market forces and creative destruction to restructure corporations whose structures have outlived their utility, without government intervention in the form of bail-outs and regulations. There are no other alternatives.

[ConstIva]

Yet, what your argument fails to consider is what your identified Socialists are actually for; or alternately, to make distinctions between whoever it is and the actual politics of Obama, Pelosi et al.

Therefore, it is part an parcel of the misleading propaganda we're being subjected to. Obama specifically rejects Socialism the way you construct it, as does just about the entire Democratic party.

The only doped fantasies about socialism in present day American politics are from the far right. And, as I say, these fantasies are not logical or congruent with reality, but rather ideological-emotional arguments.

I have to take a medical break now and will respond you later.

But again, the words "right", "far right", "close right," "left," "far left" and so on are philosophically meaningless per se; it's just conventional terms frivolously used by specific political reasons.

Let's use something meaningful, if possible, OK?

Otherwise, as opposite to Conservative "right", I will have to call Commies "Lefties," which somebody found inappropriate....-

[shooz]

Oh wait, I know, I know: the establishment of a socialist politburo and gulags for the dissidents. Either that, or allow market forces and creative destruction to restructure corporations whose structures have outlived their utility, without government intervention in the form of bail-outs and regulations. There are no other alternatives.

Tried that.
It doesn't work.

Next option?

[ConstIva]

Faux loonynews is nothing BUT propaganda.

1. Shooz, please refrain from insulting the channel you most likely even don't watch.

2. Again, propaganda of what? If FoxNews spreads propaganda of Capitalism, which you seem to hate, then other channels, as opposed to FoxsNews, are spreading propaganda of Socialism (which I hate).
So, and why the good half of Americans who share my views should suffer from what you want to establish here but have no tiniest clue of?

[Nesster]

Next option?

Enlightened social democratic policies as practiced by most of our developed ally countries, and practiced (in US terms anyway) by our last good president, Bill Clinton? Where profit isn't a bad word, but neither is the social context for said profit.

But that can't happen! For it is demonstrably a gateway to full blown Communist Socialism and will end the American Way.

[shooz]

You need to go back and re-read my original response.

I'm so glad your English is improving so quickly.

Like I said........You don't know propaganda.

[shooz]

Yay!!!!!
Free the breast pumps!!!!!

For the good of the wolrd!

[Nesster]

1. Shooz, please refrain from insulting the channel you most likely even don't watch.

2. Again, propaganda of what? If FoxNews spreads propaganda of Capitalism, which you seem to hate, then other channels, as opposed to FoxsNews, are spreading propaganda of Socialism (which I hate).
So, and why the good half of Americans who share my views should suffer from what you want establish here but have no tiniest clue of?

With all due respect, Fox does not spread propaganda for Capitalism - by your own defintion, all of the networks spread Capitalist propaganda. None spread Socialist propaganda (by your own defintion).

For spreads a particular variety of political opinion and is more transparent in its selection of news material than many other outlets. However, the classic analysis is that ALL American news outlets of any significance tend to select and portray news items that tend to support their corporate sponsors - and specifically NOT any form of socialism or even official government positions.

[Parallax]

How would you propose to eliminate those monopolies?
They are here now.

Other than utility companies, name a company that has a monopoly.

[GeneV]

Gene, there's a big difference - Corporatism within each corporation works like socialist govenance - but overall the structure is not centrally planned or controlled across corporations - but rather, the reverse tends to happen, corporations influence and control the political government.

The corporatist alarm over 'socialism' is largely the resistance to threats to their sovereign autonomy as part of 'the market', the prospect that society / political government may decide on a course that isn't congruent to the corporation's self-identified best interest, and a cultural reaction to the distressingly messy way democracy works (as opposed to the usually orderly and controlled inner workings of a corporation).

When corporations come to dominate as monopolies or near monopolies, then the central plan of the corporation becomes the central plan of the government. The way you are describing it is not really different from what I was describing. The government becomes the corporation and the system becomes more classically "socialist" in that the relatively small number of entities with true control of the government also control the means of production.

[GeneV]

Other than utility companies, name a company that has a monopoly.

Microsoft, for one.

Monopoly does not mean you control every last dollar of the market, but that you have the power to dominate. The 91% for MS is pretty much there but it would take less than that.