Originally posted by BigDave So you prove my point. They do NOT create anything. They are just spending money. Nothing has been manufactured except need, nothing has been produced, except legislation to spend the money they get, and if they spend too much, they want more.
Hm, how did I "prove your point" if I just listed many ways the government does create things? What, research is not creating things? Roads? Education? What are you talking about?
Originally posted by BigDave So let's be like the old Soviet Union and have 100% employment and no one does anything real. Let us all go to the governmental breast and suck everything we can out of it until it runs (and has run) dry. Blame private industry for the unemployment because they care more about staying in business than going out of business with too many people on the payroll.
What on earth are you talking about? It is a great tactic to introduce some straw man and then pride yourself on knocking it down. 100% employmnet doesn't need to be anything like the SU and even if the goal was not this but just returning to the pre-recession levels (NAIRU) then how does what you're saying make any sense?
Originally posted by BigDave They print the bills, but they do not create the wealth. And the more bills they print, the less they are worth. If the government created all the money, then you could go out and cash everything in and have the money in-hand. There is not enough bills to account for all the wealth in this country (houses, businesses, investments, etc.). If you think the government "makes all the money" then they should be able to get us out of the economic mess by doing the "making of the money" again. And if they are not doing this, then by default the economy is this way because they want it to be this way.
Have fun with the rest of this string. I am on the forum to delve into photography. Neither of us our going to convince each other to change minds anyway. It will just be a contest of who thinks they are smarter.
Never argue with a fool, they will drag you down and beat you with experience! So who's going to go first?
I don't appreciate being called a fool. I think you are confusing things. I wasn't even really proposing any political solutions, just pointing to the fact that under our current monetary system - which I daresay, you don't realy understand the workings of - the government spending is the only source of net money in the economy. I wasn't proposing that government should create all the wealth although there are clearly things that only a govt can create. I do believe most stuff in the economy should be produced by the private sector, but this sector has to have the ability to net-save financial asets and this can come if and only if the govt runs a deficit.
I have seen many hardcore conservatives starting to appreciate MMT - it is not political in nature - and draw their own conclusions of what must be done. The deficit is still too small to satisfy the private sector's desire to net save. The govt should lower the taxes or increase spending or both.
If you want to remain ignorant of how the things actually work in a fiat currency regime, then I am of course not holding you. But I would still suggest you spend a couple of hours with Mosler's book I linked too. It will not convince you to be a liberal (he isn't one, really) but it will make you smarter about the workings of our monetary system and of the possibilities therein.