don't let renters vote

gokenin · 02-27-2011, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by shooz

Thank you for your response.

Do feel that renters should be banned from voting?

I already answered on the first page that the guy was an idiot for even mentioning it.

Although the idea of someone being vested in an area in order to vote there has its merits I don't think it should be limited to property owners. I guess my major objection to being vested falls into the who can run for office really I don't really think that someone who "lives" somewhere for a few months is really qualified to represent that area or state to be honest. ( I know thats way off topic so you can disregard that is you want )

m8o · 02-27-2011, 06:23 PM

In response to Judson Phillips I'd have to say, I'm a property owner of 3 properties yet I haven't the slightest interest in any who live in the local communities, no matter how vested I may be...

...great to hear I'll get to vote 3 times more than most of those others tho...

jeffkrol · 02-27-2011, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by m8o

In response to Judson Phillips I'd have to say, I'm a property owner of 3 properties yet I haven't the slightest interest in any who live in the local communities, no matter how vested I may be...

...great to hear I'll get to vote 3 times more than most of those others tho...

And I thought I was the only slumlord here......

shooz · 02-27-2011, 07:41 PM

Better yet?
Don't let voters rent!..........

m8o · 02-27-2011, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

And I thought I was the only slumlord here......

Not to fear, you still are.

I'm talking about my primary home on LI, pied-a-terre for my wife in NYC, and vacant property.

Wheatfield · 02-27-2011, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

I appreciate the effort, Bill. I think we are still a bit farther up the ladder than Haiti, but it seems the politicians are greasing the rungs more and more every day.

That's where all that pork fat is going is it?
Jim, and this is the honest to God truth, as a neighbor I am honestly very concerned about the direction your country seems to be going.
I am seeing an increasingly angry and frustrated people becoming more and more polarized.
I'm seeing a country where ideology is becoming more important than reality.
I recall reading a story one time of two soldiers in the trenches in WWI.
A shell had just blown them open and they were standing there arguing about whose guts were whose.
I'm starting to see this story as a metaphor for what my neighbor is going through, with two implacable ideologies clashing, and the common good going to hell in a hand basket.
Of course, like the soldiers in the trench, it may be too late, even if you do learn to cooperate with each other.

shooz · 02-27-2011, 09:54 PM

I hear you Wheat.
I've been trying to explain, that while we sit around and argue the fine points, we are FAST becoming a plutocracy.

Personally? I don't care how many rich people there are, or how rich.
I care about how many are becoming poor and frankly.......confused by the world around them.

2 very harsh and LONG wars aren't helping any. (Shades of the book 1984)
Seems they barely show up on the news anymore.

Now they have at each others throats over the left over scraps of dignity.

I say look beyond the politicians who seem to causing it and search for the people behind them.

Those are the plutocrats.

mikemike · 02-28-2011, 07:30 AM

We should take it a step further, don't let anyone with a mortgage vote either. Only those who own their house outright should be allowed to vote

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

Any illusions left about this 'Tea Party's' real agenda?

No, I think it is just another case of taking a large decentralized movement and picking apart the lunatic fringe in an attempt to discredit the whole group. I am surprised that you would participate in such a tactic considering how it is used to attack LGBT rights by taking a few oddballs and trying to portray the whole community as depraved and immoral.

GeneV · 02-28-2011, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

That's where all that pork fat is going is it?
Jim, and this is the honest to God truth, as a neighbor I am honestly very concerned about the direction your country seems to be going.
I am seeing an increasingly angry and frustrated people becoming more and more polarized.
I'm seeing a country where ideology is becoming more important than reality.

That has been the saddest development I have witnessed in my country. If someone formed a Pragmatist Party, I'd join.

Ratmagiclady · 02-28-2011, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by mikemike

We should take it a step further, don't let anyone with a mortgage vote either. Only those who own their house outright should be allowed to vote

That part's not something they'd need to codify, really, the way mortgage schemes have left the housing market. Why worry about mortgages when certain interests can decide who gets credit? (Or to own or keep their property, in the case of LGBT couples and families, in practice.

The corporate world has been one of rather-enforced rootlessness with people having to move all over (if they can) to chase jobs. Blaming some people for not having the 'foresight' to become 'invested' in a community based on who holds title is... The kind of pseudo-aristocratic attitude behind this 'Tea party.' Especially in the persons of who they *actually elect,* it's not 'populist,' it's just a fantasy of people being induced to vote against their own interests because they believe one day they'll be among those on top. Even if they spoil their own chances.

That's kind of the point, here, it's not that it was 'stupid of this guy to say,' ...it's that it reveals an attitude which is consistent with the policies and agendas of the Tea Party/GOP/Religious Right, but *not* with the expectations of those who expect 'freedom and small government via corporate friendly policies and conservative-activist social agendas.'

Quote:

No, I think it is just another case of taking a large decentralized movement and picking apart the lunatic fringe in an attempt to discredit the whole group. I am surprised that you would participate in such a tactic considering how it is used to attack LGBT rights by taking a few oddballs and trying to portray the whole community as depraved and immoral.

No, it's not about a 'lunatic fringe,' it's about who you *actually elect (and whose support you actually get: contrary to all claims, the Tea Party *is* heavily affiliated with the old Religious Right, just repackaged, and even more extreme GOP about social controls and regressive policies in favor of plutocratic elites. While it may not be what many claim to *want,* the people you've put in office display what you *really got.*

That includes electing people who claimed they *weren't* about 'attacking LGBT rights' and have spent a great deal of effort doing just that.

Don't look at *me* if you were taken in by that. I warned you. Among many, they're doing *exactly* what you refused to accept they were *saying* they'd do.

They win a few seats in Congress thanks to *progressives* being disillusioned, and decide it suddenly meant the 'will of the people' wasn't near 80 percent for immediate repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, so they should froth hate and defamation to delay justice on that, before they even took office, ...all this, yes, to suit a 'lunatic fringe.' If that wasn't what you wanted, then talk to the people who claim to *represent* you, don't try to turn it around on *me.*

All that 'nice' rhetoric for the MSM (as opposed to what the same people promised the Religious Right) says they were really all about 'freedom, government accountability, and personal responsibility,' ....And if *that's* what you wanted, stop whining with false equivalencies about how 'oppressed' you feel by 'libruls,' and *take some.*

If you don't support the *actual homophobia and actual oppressive policies these guys are pushing in your name,* don't tell *me,* ...*tell them.*

mikemike · 02-28-2011, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

No, it's not about a 'lunatic fringe,' it's about who you *actually elect (and whose support you actually get: contrary to all claims, the Tea Party *is* heavily affiliated with the old Religious Right, just repackaged, and even more extreme GOP about social controls and regressive policies in favor of plutocratic elites. While it may not be what many claim to *want,* the people you've put in office display what you *really got.*

I just did a search for Judson Phillips and this guy isn't an elected official. He is not a congressmen, state rep, city council member, or even a dog catcher. He is the leader of a tea party group he started himself... I don't know how you could characterize him as an elected official or official spokesperson of an elected official.

This is just a shallow attempt to do a hatchet job by ascribing his bad idea to a larger community which he is member of to create a fallacious guilt by association link.

Ratmagiclady · 02-28-2011, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by mikemike

I just did a search for Judson Phillips and this guy isn't an elected official. He is not a congressmen, state rep, city council member, or even a dog catcher. He is the leader of a tea party group he started himself... I don't know how you could characterize him as an elected official or official spokesperson of an elected official.

This is just a shallow attempt to do a hatchet job by ascribing his bad idea to a larger community which he is member of to create a fallacious guilt by association link.

He's hardly the only one. If you don't approve of him or other 'local Tea Party groups' (Like the whole actual platforms in Maine, Texas, etc) or those they elect that push the same agendas, *stop trying to cover for them and demand otherwise.* *You* might feel to have the luxury of denial on these things, but at the end of the day, *I don't.* And what's *really* been going on is something you apparently either couldn't be bothered to check out, or won't admit you really want.

Personal responsibility guy.

cardinal43 · 03-01-2011, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by mikemike

We should take it a step further, don't let anyone with a mortgage vote either. Only those who own their house outright should be allowed to vote

(

Works for me. I own mine free and clear (thanks to my wonderful public career).

Tom S. · 03-01-2011, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by mikemike

We should take it a step further, don't let anyone with a mortgage vote either. Only those who own their house outright should be allowed to vote

(

Actually, no one owns property. If you don't believe that, stop paying your property taxes and see what happens...

m8o · 03-01-2011, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Actually, no one owns property. If you don't believe that, stop paying your property taxes and see what happens...

Well that certainly made an impact on me!

02-28-2011, 08:38 AM	#40
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by mikemike We should take it a step further, don't let anyone with a mortgage vote either. Only those who own their house outright should be allowed to vote That part's not something they'd need to codify, really, the way mortgage schemes have left the housing market. Why worry about mortgages when certain interests can decide who gets credit? (Or to own or keep their property, in the case of LGBT couples and families, in practice. The corporate world has been one of rather-enforced rootlessness with people having to move all over (if they can) to chase jobs. Blaming some people for not having the 'foresight' to become 'invested' in a community based on who holds title is... The kind of pseudo-aristocratic attitude behind this 'Tea party.' Especially in the persons of who they actually elect, it's not 'populist,' it's just a fantasy of people being induced to vote against their own interests because they believe one day they'll be among those on top. Even if they spoil their own chances. That's kind of the point, here, it's not that it was 'stupid of this guy to say,' ...it's that it reveals an attitude which is consistent with the policies and agendas of the Tea Party/GOP/Religious Right, but not with the expectations of those who expect 'freedom and small government via corporate friendly policies and conservative-activist social agendas.' Quote: No, I think it is just another case of taking a large decentralized movement and picking apart the lunatic fringe in an attempt to discredit the whole group. I am surprised that you would participate in such a tactic considering how it is used to attack LGBT rights by taking a few oddballs and trying to portray the whole community as depraved and immoral. No, it's not about a 'lunatic fringe,' it's about who you actually elect (and whose support you actually get: contrary to all claims, the Tea Party is* heavily affiliated with the old Religious Right, just repackaged, and even more extreme GOP about social controls and regressive policies in favor of plutocratic elites. While it may not be what many claim to want, the people you've put in office display what you really got. That includes electing people who claimed they weren't about 'attacking LGBT rights' and have spent a great deal of effort doing just that. Don't look at me if you were taken in by that. I warned you. Among many, they're doing exactly what you refused to accept they were saying they'd do. They win a few seats in Congress thanks to progressives being disillusioned, and decide it suddenly meant the 'will of the people' wasn't near 80 percent for immediate repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, so they should froth hate and defamation to delay justice on that, before they even took office, ...all this, yes, to suit a 'lunatic fringe.' If that wasn't what you wanted, then talk to the people who claim to represent you, don't try to turn it around on me. All that 'nice' rhetoric for the MSM (as opposed to what the same people promised the Religious Right) says they were really all about 'freedom, government accountability, and personal responsibility,' ....And if that's what you wanted, stop whining with false equivalencies about how 'oppressed' you feel by 'libruls,' and take some. If you don't support the actual homophobia and actual oppressive policies these guys are pushing in your name, don't tell me, ...tell them. Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 02-28-2011 at 08:51 AM.

03-01-2011, 12:48 PM	#43
cardinal43 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,412	Originally posted by mikemike We should take it a step further, don't let anyone with a mortgage vote either. Only those who own their house outright should be allowed to vote ( Works for me. I own mine free and clear (thanks to my wonderful public career). Last edited by cardinal43; 03-01-2011 at 03:57 PM.

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02-27-2011, 05:50 PM	#31
gokenin Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: lowell,ma Posts: 1,899	Originally posted by shooz Thank you for your response. Do feel that renters should be banned from voting? I already answered on the first page that the guy was an idiot for even mentioning it. Although the idea of someone being vested in an area in order to vote there has its merits I don't think it should be limited to property owners. I guess my major objection to being vested falls into the who can run for office really I don't really think that someone who "lives" somewhere for a few months is really qualified to represent that area or state to be honest. ( I know thats way off topic so you can disregard that is you want )

02-27-2011, 06:23 PM	#32
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	In response to Judson Phillips I'd have to say, I'm a property owner of 3 properties yet I haven't the slightest interest in any who live in the local communities, no matter how vested I may be... ...great to hear I'll get to vote 3 times more than most of those others tho...

02-27-2011, 07:31 PM	#33
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434 Original Poster	Originally posted by m8o In response to Judson Phillips I'd have to say, I'm a property owner of 3 properties yet I haven't the slightest interest in any who live in the local communities, no matter how vested I may be... ...great to hear I'll get to vote 3 times more than most of those others tho... And I thought I was the only slumlord here......

02-27-2011, 07:41 PM	#34
shooz Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Detroit Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,491	Better yet? Don't let voters rent!..........

02-27-2011, 08:20 PM	#35
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Originally posted by jeffkrol And I thought I was the only slumlord here...... Not to fear, you still are. I'm talking about my primary home on LI, pied-a-terre for my wife in NYC, and vacant property.

02-27-2011, 08:44 PM	#36
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by Parallax I appreciate the effort, Bill. I think we are still a bit farther up the ladder than Haiti, but it seems the politicians are greasing the rungs more and more every day. That's where all that pork fat is going is it? Jim, and this is the honest to God truth, as a neighbor I am honestly very concerned about the direction your country seems to be going. I am seeing an increasingly angry and frustrated people becoming more and more polarized. I'm seeing a country where ideology is becoming more important than reality. I recall reading a story one time of two soldiers in the trenches in WWI. A shell had just blown them open and they were standing there arguing about whose guts were whose. I'm starting to see this story as a metaphor for what my neighbor is going through, with two implacable ideologies clashing, and the common good going to hell in a hand basket. Of course, like the soldiers in the trench, it may be too late, even if you do learn to cooperate with each other.

02-27-2011, 09:54 PM	#37
shooz Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Detroit Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,491	I hear you Wheat. I've been trying to explain, that while we sit around and argue the fine points, we are FAST becoming a plutocracy. Personally? I don't care how many rich people there are, or how rich. I care about how many are becoming poor and frankly.......confused by the world around them. 2 very harsh and LONG wars aren't helping any. (Shades of the book 1984) Seems they barely show up on the news anymore. Now they have at each others throats over the left over scraps of dignity. I say look beyond the politicians who seem to causing it and search for the people behind them. Those are the plutocrats.

02-28-2011, 07:30 AM	#38
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	We should take it a step further, don't let anyone with a mortgage vote either. Only those who own their house outright should be allowed to vote Originally posted by Ratmagiclady Any illusions left about this 'Tea Party's' real agenda? No, I think it is just another case of taking a large decentralized movement and picking apart the lunatic fringe in an attempt to discredit the whole group. I am surprised that you would participate in such a tactic considering how it is used to attack LGBT rights by taking a few oddballs and trying to portray the whole community as depraved and immoral.

02-28-2011, 07:41 AM	#39
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Wheatfield That's where all that pork fat is going is it? Jim, and this is the honest to God truth, as a neighbor I am honestly very concerned about the direction your country seems to be going. I am seeing an increasingly angry and frustrated people becoming more and more polarized. I'm seeing a country where ideology is becoming more important than reality. That has been the saddest development I have witnessed in my country. If someone formed a Pragmatist Party, I'd join.

02-28-2011, 08:53 AM	#41
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady No, it's not about a 'lunatic fringe,' it's about who you actually elect (and whose support you actually get: contrary to all claims, the Tea Party is* heavily affiliated with the old Religious Right, just repackaged, and even more extreme GOP about social controls and regressive policies in favor of plutocratic elites. While it may not be what many claim to want, the people you've put in office display what you really got. I just did a search for Judson Phillips and this guy isn't an elected official. He is not a congressmen, state rep, city council member, or even a dog catcher. He is the leader of a tea party group he started himself... I don't know how you could characterize him as an elected official or official spokesperson of an elected official. This is just a shallow attempt to do a hatchet job by ascribing his bad idea to a larger community which he is member of to create a fallacious guilt by association link.

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02-28-2011, 09:02 AM	#42
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by mikemike I just did a search for Judson Phillips and this guy isn't an elected official. He is not a congressmen, state rep, city council member, or even a dog catcher. He is the leader of a tea party group he started himself... I don't know how you could characterize him as an elected official or official spokesperson of an elected official. This is just a shallow attempt to do a hatchet job by ascribing his bad idea to a larger community which he is member of to create a fallacious guilt by association link. He's hardly the only one. If you don't approve of him or other 'local Tea Party groups' (Like the whole actual platforms in Maine, Texas, etc) or those they elect that push the same agendas, stop trying to cover for them and demand otherwise. You might feel to have the luxury of denial on these things, but at the end of the day, I don't. And what's really been going on is something you apparently either couldn't be bothered to check out, or won't admit you really want. Personal responsibility guy.

03-01-2011, 04:31 PM	#44
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by mikemike We should take it a step further, don't let anyone with a mortgage vote either. Only those who own their house outright should be allowed to vote ( Actually, no one owns property. If you don't believe that, stop paying your property taxes and see what happens...

03-01-2011, 10:38 PM	#45
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Originally posted by Tom S. Actually, no one owns property. If you don't believe that, stop paying your property taxes and see what happens... Well that certainly made an impact on me!