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03-12-2011, 09:33 AM   #16
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The Constitution requires that you be 18 to vote. How does a piece of mail used as an ID establish/verify that?

03-12-2011, 09:53 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
The Constitution requires that you be 18 to vote. How does a piece of mail used as an ID establish/verify that?
Since I already mentioned I would be leaning towards a fed id (guess ss card isn,t good enough) all this little "piddy c@ap) is just pointless.......
how does it affect people who relocate a lot? Do you have to prove residency or just that your a voter??? Do you have to pay for it? Pay to vote!!!!
As I said piddy c@ap on a non-issue...
voter fraud probably is 1/some LARGE number of a percent of voters.. Aren't we supposed to be fighting 'gov intervention" in our lives????
honestly I just don't understand.
03-12-2011, 05:23 PM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
We don't give the right to vote to the majority, but to every citizen.
No, we give every citizen WHO REGISTERS the right to vote. Oddly enough, those places you can get a license? You can get state issued photo ID. Also oddly enough, due to the motor voter bill, you should be able to take care of registering to vote at the same time.

Hmm. How oppressively convenient.
03-13-2011, 06:10 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by raz-0 Quote
No, we give every citizen WHO REGISTERS the right to vote. Oddly enough, those places you can get a license? You can get state issued photo ID. Also oddly enough, due to the motor voter bill, you should be able to take care of registering to vote at the same time.

Hmm. How oppressively convenient.
I am not sure what you are disagreeing with, but there is nothing in the constitution about registering. Registration is unction of verifying residency, age, etc.

The motor voter bills allow you to register at the same time you vote, using computers to check vital information. That is effectively the same thing as letting you vote without prior registration.

03-13-2011, 06:12 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
The Constitution requires that you be 18 to vote. How does a piece of mail used as an ID establish/verify that?
That is verified when you register. Your name should not get on the list unless you are entitled to vote. We are talking about adding a separate ID step to registration at the time they check your name off. If you registered on the spot, you need more ID.

Gee, if a concealed permit exempts you from the ID requirement, I wonder if a student ID will work?
03-13-2011, 09:53 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
We don't have a clean poll like this that tells us how gun owners voted in 2008, but the data is clear; gun owners favor Republicans.
Then why is it the only three people that I know with CCPs are all confirmed Democrats? And they aren't old, Southern conservative Democrats either.

While in many states I would agree that CCP or gun ownership would tend to lean heavily to the conservative side, in Texas that is not as much the case.
03-13-2011, 09:58 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by WJW Quote
Then why is it the only three people that I know with CCPs are all confirmed Democrats? And they aren't old, Southern conservative Democrats either.

While in many states I would agree that CCP or gun ownership would tend to lean heavily to the conservative side, in Texas that is not as much the case.
Not true from my experience. My relatives in TX have them, and they are not even close to being Dems. Are you in Austin?

03-13-2011, 09:50 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Not true from my experience. My relatives in TX have them, and they are not even close to being Dems. Are you in Austin?
Waco.

A funny aside: I lived in Vermont for 3 years and despite the "Wild West" opinion most hold of Texas, Vermont has (or had) no CCP requirement and if you could own it, you could carry it. I worked nights and traveled some pretty lonely roads, so I carried a gun in the car (or jacket pocket) for most of the time I was there. When I came back to Texas I had to stop as there wasn't really any concealed carry allowed.
03-14-2011, 05:52 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by WJW Quote
Waco.

A funny aside: I lived in Vermont for 3 years and despite the "Wild West" opinion most hold of Texas, Vermont has (or had) no CCP requirement and if you could own it, you could carry it. I worked nights and traveled some pretty lonely roads, so I carried a gun in the car (or jacket pocket) for most of the time I was there. When I came back to Texas I had to stop as there wasn't really any concealed carry allowed.
Where were those 3 Democrats?

I went to law school there, and back three decades ago you could actually find Dems at Baylor, but now, it seems not so much. More like an endangered species outside of Austin.
03-14-2011, 06:15 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Where were those 3 Democrats?

I went to law school there, and back three decades ago you could actually find Dems at Baylor, but now, it seems not so much. More like an endangered species outside of Austin.
There are still a lot of Democrats around Waco, just very few in elected positions.
03-14-2011, 08:20 AM - 1 Like   #26
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Since a TX "Concealed Handgun License" is a state issued document (just like a driver's license) I think the CHL part makes sense... as long as the permit has the permit holder's photo on it (TX CHL application requires 2 passport style photos be included so it is logical to assume the permit includes a photo).

I don't get the old folks exemption... Age is no proof of voter eligibility. Furthermore how can they prove they were born in 1931 or earlier without showing ID? Unless perhaps a faded old birth certificate is considered sufficient (and what about people born where birth certs were not provided or births even tracked?).

As for using your mail to prove residence? If that were sufficient, I could take Jose Morales' mail with me to the polls and vote as him. Why? because I get mail addressed to him all the time using my address. As far as I know he hasn't lived here for several years but I'd be willing to bet he is still registered at my address. Come on... even poor democrats (though they have no monopoly on poverty) can get government issued photo IDs. Heck, photo IDs should be a requirement for getting their public assistance if they are that bad off. I don't see what the hardship is... And if they don't want an ID because they are afraid of the government or are not here legally, then it is their fault that they can't vote. This is not Jim Crow or discrimination... it is about the validity of the democratic process.

Mike

p.s. I don't think a student ID, even one from a state school, would work Gene asI do not believe that they are considered "legal ID" anywhere off campus except maybe at the movie theater... LOL
03-14-2011, 10:52 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Since a TX "Concealed Handgun License" is a state issued document (just like a driver's license) I think the CHL part makes sense... as long as the permit has the permit holder's photo on it (TX CHL application requires 2 passport style photos be included so it is logical to assume the permit includes a photo).

I don't get the old folks exemption... Age is no proof of voter eligibility. Furthermore how can they prove they were born in 1931 or earlier without showing ID? Unless perhaps a faded old birth certificate is considered sufficient (and what about people born where birth certs were not provided or births even tracked?).

As for using your mail to prove residence? If that were sufficient, I could take Jose Morales' mail with me to the polls and vote as him. Why? because I get mail addressed to him all the time using my address. As far as I know he hasn't lived here for several years but I'd be willing to bet he is still registered at my address. Come on... even poor democrats (though they have no monopoly on poverty) can get government issued photo IDs. Heck, photo IDs should be a requirement for getting their public assistance if they are that bad off. I don't see what the hardship is... And if they don't want an ID because they are afraid of the government or are not here legally, then it is their fault that they can't vote. This is not Jim Crow or discrimination... it is about the validity of the democratic process.

Mike

p.s. I don't think a student ID, even one from a state school, would work Gene asI do not believe that they are considered "legal ID" anywhere off campus except maybe at the movie theater... LOL
Why single out the Concealed Carry Permits among the myriad of other state issued licenses, including occupational licenses? Why not a student ID if you can use any other ID issued by the state? Care to give the logic there, Mike?

How do you prove residence if not through mail at that address? I've been through this a few time in court trying to prove that someone lives at an address. You need mail, or someone who will testify that you live there.

As to the validity of the democratic process, there has been no showing that the current system isn't working. This is an solution in search of a legitimate problem.
03-14-2011, 11:05 AM   #28
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I would think it is because the CCP is a more arduous process and requires a greater burden of proof. The point is, Gene, that you can't use any other ID issued by the state. Students are often NOT residents of the state where they are attending school. They incur out-of-state tuition charges and are allowed to drive cars with plates from other states. As I understand the proposal, no one is attempting to say students are not allowed to vote. They are only attempting to make sure there is no voter fraud. I have lived in 7 states and establishing residency (and voting rights) has always been a VERY easy process.
03-14-2011, 12:00 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by raz-0 Quote
No, we give every citizen WHO REGISTERS the right to vote. Oddly enough, those places you can get a license? You can get state issued photo ID. Also oddly enough, due to the motor voter bill, you should be able to take care of registering to vote at the same time.

Hmm. How oppressively convenient.

Generally, you can, or should be, but voter registrations often expire, and occasionally, there's even a little intimidation about the process (ie, if you really need that driver's license and your name's Gonzalez, do you want that tied up in immigration, whoever you are? Bear in mind it's not always rational.)


There are a lot of ways in which requiring voter registration at *all* may be antiquated and unnecessary, in a computer age, where probably Amazon sellers get more information at a swipe than a voter roll can give. And I'd love to frustrate pollsters and pundits, anyway. Rather than frustrate *voters.* 'Registered voters' isn't always this 'will of the people,' in actuality, after all.

It's a small portion of the people, usually the most-motivated, and not always nobly.

'Voter suppression' is a real factor, if not the entire GOP *policy* at this point: Frustrate everyone with government.

Except regressives.

I mean, a gun license *better* be good enough credentials to vote on, but I figure they could check the little box that says, 'Yes, I'd like to register to vote while I'm here,' too.
03-14-2011, 02:16 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by clmonk Quote
I would think it is because the CCP is a more arduous process and requires a greater burden of proof. The point is, Gene, that you can't use any other ID issued by the state. Students are often NOT residents of the state where they are attending school. They incur out-of-state tuition charges and are allowed to drive cars with plates from other states. As I understand the proposal, no one is attempting to say students are not allowed to vote. They are only attempting to make sure there is no voter fraud. I have lived in 7 states and establishing residency (and voting rights) has always been a VERY easy process.
There are other forms of Photo IDs allowed, but carefully crafted to favor Republicans (for example, military ID works). This form has only passed the senate. House Republicans as well as Democrats have expressed interest in using all forms of state issued photo ID, including Student ID:

QuoteQuote:
Under the Senate bill, only five types of photo ID would be accepted: driver's license; state identification card; military identification card; a citizenship document with a photo, such as a passport; or concealed carry license.

One of the GOP representatives Straus picked to lead Republicans during the voter ID fight the last legislative session, Rep. Phil King, R-Weatherford, said he would be interested in broadening the photo ID standards to include ID cards issued by local governments and public universities.

"The key thing that you need is a government-issued photo ID," King said. "I would even be fine if it were a state university or a state college ID."

An effort by state Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, to insert such a proviso into the Senate bill was defeated
Representative King appears to be a principled Republican who is not just picking IDs likely to be carried by Republicans.
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