[TomK]

A battery, which can last about eight hours, is being used to cool the reactor for now, the agency officials said. Another six batteries have been secured, and the government may use military helicopters to fly them in, they said.

See, that is why I like AA's and in particular Eneloops.
They are readily available and do not have to be flown in by helicopters.
Sorry, just had a Pentax Moment!

[TOUGEFC]

Dont always believe what you read or hear. Japanese nationals know that Japan Nuclear Energy Commission will never reveal anything is wrong or "above normal measures". Anything that creates Nuclear fear in Japan or works against the Government receiving funds will be squashed efficiently and edited.

[jeffkrol]

completely off topic warning

jeffkrol I am curious what method of creating electricity are you in favor of ? just curious and as I said slightly off topic

to be honest, anything BUT nuclear fission reactors......
My favorite is fusion, solar, and burning garbage....

[jeffkrol]

well let's just be thankful the Japanese didn't have an incident like chenobyl. I have been there, and according to my guide you can actually find sizable chunks of the graphite that used to surround the fuel rods in the reactor kilometres away from the reactor.

Fascinating and scarey at the same time....
I take it you've seen this web site......
KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena

At 1:23 AM, the operator moved to shut down the reactor in its low power mode and a domino effect of previous errors caused an sharp power surge, triggering a tremendous steam explosion which blew the 1000 ton cap on the nuclear containment vessel to smithereens.
Some of the 211 control rods melted and then a second explosion, whose cause is still the subject of disagreement among experts, threw out fragments of the burning radioactive fuel core and allowed air to rush in - igniting several tons of graphite insulating blocks.
Once graphite starts to burn, its almost impossible to extinguish. It took 9 days and 5000 tons of sand, boron, dolomite, clay and lead dropped from helicopters to put it out. The radiation was so intense that many of those brave pilots died.
It was this graphite fire that released most of the radiation into the atmosphere and troubling spikes in atmospheric radiation were measured as far away as Sweden - thousands of miles away.
The causes of the accident are described as a fateful combination of human error and imperfect technology.
In keeping with a long tradition of Soviet justice, they imprisoned all the people who worked on that shift - regardless of their guilt. The man who tried to stop the chain reaction in a last desperate attempt to avoid the meltdown was sentenced to 14 years in prison. He died 3 weeks later.
Radiation will stay in the Chernobyl area for the next 48.000 years, but humans may begin repopulating the area in about 600 years - give or take three centuries. The experts predict that, by then, the most dangerous elements will have disappeared - or been sufficiently diluted into the rest of the world's air, soil and water. If our government can somehow find the money and political will power to finance the necessary scientific research, perhaps a way will be discovered to neutralize or clean up the contamination sooner. Otherwise, our distant ancestors will have to wait untill the radiation diminishes to a tolerable level. If we use the lowest scientific estimate, that will be 300 years from now......some scientists say it may be as long as 900 years.
I think it will be 300, but people often accuse me of being an optimist.

[GeneV]

I have to admit that the reports on this morning's news were scarier than before.

[Peter Zack]

Agreed Gene. The plant looks to be in serious trouble and there's almost no official information to explain how bad this really is.

[jeffkrol]

Agreed Gene. The plant looks to be in serious trouble and there's almost no official information to explain how bad this really is.

surprised?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO), in a statement, reported "a big sound around the Unit 1 and white smoke" shortly after another quake shook the area. But the company would not confirm whether the reactor itself was involved, saying only that four workers have been taken to hospital.

Those sorts of low-key statements do not match with the actions of the government or the power company. Late this afternoon local time, authorities announced that they were enlarging the evacuation zone surrounding the plant to 20 kilometers in radius. The International Atomic Energy Agency also reports that the Japanese are readying iodine tablets for distribution to the public.

Radioactive iodine is one of the largest health threats from any nuclear accident. The iodine can easily escape in gases vented from the reactor and is readily absorbed by the human body, where it becomes concentrated in the thyroid. Iodine tablets flood the thyroid, effectively lessening the uptake of any radioactive isotopes floating around. In a separate statement, TEPCO reports increased levels of radioactive iodine at the Fukushima site.

Meanwhile, the explosion has apparently prompted TEPCO to try flooding Fukushima Unit 1 with seawater. Such a decision reinforces the urgency of the situation. Nuclear plants are normally cooled with ultra-pure water, as any contamination can become radioactive (as well as interfere with the reactor's processes). Flooding the reactor with ocean water will almost certainly ruin the unit permanently. As Walt Patterson, an independent nuclear consultant, put it to BBC News: "This reactor will now be a write-off."

There has also been speculation on BBC this afternoon that the explosion was triggered by hydrogen gas from the reactor core. The gas would be created as water decomposes in the intense heat of the core, and, if that is what triggered the blast, it implies that temperatures are far higher than authorities have let on. There is a possibility that a partial meltdown has already taken place.

I still have not seen any update on Fukushima Daiichi unit number 2 or the two units experiencing difficulties at Fukushima Daini.

Of course, downplaying nuclear emergencies is nothing new, and the authorities do have an incentive to try and minimize panic as they increase the exclusion zone around the reactor. Yet from the evidence we have at the moment, the situation, to me at least, looks far more serious than official statements might lead one to believe.

http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2011/03/a_disconnect_between_statement.html
things you don't like to see:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/03/12/134486565/at-crippled-japanes...event-meltdown


end of the crisis???
we'll see. I hope so:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2011/0312/Japan-earthquake-Offic...trophe-averted

---

Last edited by jeffkrol; 03-12-2011 at 11:14 AM.

[Pentaxor]

personally, I would go against nuclear power. considering how powerful, efficient and cheap it is, it is still highly dangerous. although incidents like the chernobyl and 3 mile island can be prevented, there is no way of preventing natural disasters.

no matter how superior or well-designed the construction of the power plants are, once the earth opens up underneath it, it would cause a major catastrophe. we can only imagine the Japanese getting struck with another 8.9 magnitude earthquake for 3 minutes again and everything would surely collapse. a 3 minute earthquake is already an eternity, what more if you make it 6.

[Pentaxor]

oh and I just heard there was an explosion on one of the plants. this is not looking good at all.

[jeffkrol]

oh and I just heard there was an explosion on one of the plants. this is not looking good at all.

unless that's a new one the explosion was JUST the cover building to the reactor.
time lines on these stories are hard to track sometimes.
My big question now is if there using seawater as emergency cooling.. where are they putting the mildly(!) radioactive water??? any guesses....

[Pentaxor]

unless that's a new one the explosion was JUST the cover building to the reactor.
time lines on these stories are hard to track sometimes.
My big question now is if there using seawater as emergency cooling.. where are they putting the mildly(!) radioactive water??? any guesses....

out to sea? that would be a bad idea. usually, nuclear wastes are buried underneath the earth. if they leak it out in the open, expect that there won't be a living thing surviving for miles, including sea creatures for decades. not to mention the risk of going out further.

anyway, I dont think using seawater as cooling is the issue here, but rather the turbines that control the flow of seawater. any meltdown is the result of water dried out inside the reactor.

[jeffkrol]

out to sea? that would be a bad idea. usually, nuclear wastes are buried underneath the earth. if they leak it out in the open, expect that there won't be a living thing surviving for miles, including sea creatures for decades. not to mention the risk of going out further.

anyway, I dont think using seawater as cooling is the issue here, but rather the turbines that control the flow of seawater. any meltdown is the result of water dried out inside the reactor.

See I don't think pumps would handle sea water in recirculation but if poured in then just poured out into the ocean it would, in theory, be just low level contamination.

"The situation has become desperate enough that they apparently don't have the capability to deliver fresh water or plain water to cool the reactor and stabilize it, and now, in an act of desperation, are having to resort to diverting and using sea water," said Robert Alvarez, who works on nuclear disarmament at the Institute for Policy Studies.

It's not being "pumped and circulated" is my guess, just dumped and drained, dumped and drained...BUT we do not know that for sure.
US experts fear 'Chernobyl-like' crisis for Japan - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

[raz-0]

current safety standards/technology is fine. May I remind some that the Titanic was unsinkable.....
I try to err on the side that we're not infallible.
Second, barring the long reach of global warming making the entire planet inhabitable MOST energy disasters do not have half life's in the 1000's of years..
To me Chernobyl was an epiphany and sometimes "fate" only gives one warning...
One I don't choose to ignore or to think we have moved beyond it.

Fire at nuclear power plant extinguished | The Australian
Stay tuned..........

2011/03/12 02:24 - Radiation Level Rising In Fukushima Nuclear Plant Turbine Building

Wow, you are ignorant as hell aren't you.

hmm.. coal fired plants emit more radiation than nuclear power has.

Leave out really, really horrible designs like chernobyl, and you will not see a meltdown. Why? Because the rods that stop reactions drop down into the reactor to stop the reaction. The elevator they are on is made of a material with a lower melting point than the containment vessel. Thus worst case, it gets really hot, melts the "elevator" and shuts down when the carbon rods drop in.

The only risk is from venting radioactive steam, and burning coal releases plenty of naturally occurring radioactive material. Way more in total than all the venting of steam from western reactor designs.

To that I'll add I love seeing the local LNG depot blow up, it does it about every 5 years like clockwork when it's nice and dry out and the horror of static electricity and complacent workers combines.

Also in my lifetime, I've been within a short drive of at least 3 nuclear power plants. in the same span, I have been living fairly close to one natural gas pipeline and one petroleum pipeline. In 30+ years, there have been ZERO issues with the nuke plants, but the natural gas pipeline blew up. It did a fair amount of damage.

As for your statement that nuclear power will never be safe, you aren't already wrong, but your argument about half-life if something might possibly go wrong may also be moot if they start building thorium reactors.

Oh yeah, and even if you live right near one of the few ventings that have occurred from western style reactors, you are probably at greater risk from a lazy doctor prescribing a less tan necessary cat scan to cover his ass due to lawsuits.

NOTHING is safe. You however seem to be very bad at risk assessment.

[jeffkrol]

One core melting possibly.......

A meltdown may be occurring at one of the reactors at an earthquake-damaged nuclear power plant in northeast Japan, a government official told CNN Sunday morning Japan time.

"There is a possibility, we see the possibility of a meltdown," said Toshihiro Bannai, director of the international affairs office of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety, in a telephone interview with CNN from the agency's Tokyo headquarters. "At this point, we have still not confirmed that there is an actual meltdown, but there is a possibility."

Bannai said engineers have been unable to get close enough to the reactor's core to know what's going on, and that he based his conclusion on radioactive cesium and iodine measured in the air near the plant Saturday night.

Japan earthquake: Meltdown may be occurring, Japanese nuclear official says - latimes.com
it's probably true because news out of Japan is old...

[jeffkrol]

Wow, you are ignorant as hell aren't you.

at lest you didn't call me stupid......

hmm.. coal fired plants emit more radiation than nuclear power has.

statistically yes. Tell me what compounds are emitted... give me the rad-Iodine and rad-Cs levels in particular since there some of the "bad guys"

Leave out really, really horrible designs like chernobyl, and you will not see a meltdown. Why? B
NOTHING is safe. You however seem to be very bad at risk assessment.

OK............ see above