[shooz]

See.......More denial.

[Chex]

I think if a company sells products in a country it should pay taxes on its generated revenue from those products.. PERIOD. There should be no exemptions. Face it, if a company wants to stay selling to a market AKA - United states - they should be charged X.XX % tax on each product shipped/sold in the USA. If they don't want to pay, they don't tap into the market (of millions of potential customers). I think there should be an open hunting season on lobbiests, make their dirty jobs more entertaining and worth their huge pay.

[Chex]

Keep in mind too the world's commerce is far more global than in the '50's. It would not be a stretch for GE or another major corp to relocate off shore rather quickly as in the case of GE, thier profit center seems to be more off shore than in the US.

As long as they pay taxes on whatever products of their sold would be fine wherever their corporate office is located.. if they don't pay the taxes, they don't hit the shelves.. that would be the best way to enforce proper taxes in a capatalist driven economy. But then they would just try to pay off the decision maker or the guy who would confirm the taxes have been paid.

"Update: Andrew Williams, who works in GE’s media affairs office, e-mails:

The Times' story missed the most important part of the story, and I wanted to make sure you have all the facts. The reality is that within the context of the 2008 financial crisis, GE Capital suffered significant losses, which impacted taxes. Take out GECapital, and GE's effective corporate tax rate would be 21%. "

Quoted from the link.. thats cute too.. take away our champion company we put all our real effort into making money with and we were taxed hard.. boohoo, like everything they own isn't financially controlled by GE Capital to purposely SHOW this, while GE Capital themselves are probably taxed VERY little if at all, and have a profit margin far higher than other area's of GE.

[jolepp]

A national sales tax combined with a fixed monthly payment to each citizen would have the net effect of progressive taxation and making dodging the same harder. The payment could replace a myriad of other basic level benefits designed to help people through various hardships. This would lessen the administrative burden and make accepting work always result in more cash in hand. Considering that people will take as much as they need to live out of the economy one way or another, the net cost on the national level should not be too bad. (Also imagine the political implications ... )

Unlikely to happen anywhere, but would make sense in many ways, most importantly being simple. Another pipe dream would be a "money changing hands" tax which could be had by making all money electronic (which it is to a large extent already).

[Chex]

Yup, I'd hate to say it since most people on here are probably from the USA, but IMO all these issues are good signs of why trying to be a purely capatalistic society is doomed to failure. I've always said.. "socialism looks great on paper" If only anything would pan out as nice and easy as its fundamental theories or initial concepts... I think one of the worst things invented was currency.. if people had to trade item for item, or skill for item etc.. sure the world would probably be behind a long way.. but I think as people we would all be better off.. of course there are exemptions to some who would not be better off, but I'm generalizing here.

[Phil1]

More denial:

In January, President Obama named General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt to head the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, an economic advisory board focused on job creation.

In his State of the Union address that same month, meanwhile, he called for the closure of corporate tax loopholes in conjunction with a lowering of the corporate tax rate, which stands at 35 percent.

G.E. subsequently pointed out what it says is a significant flaw in the story: That the Times did not take into account the impact of its GE Capital losses in the financial crisis. G.E. said that if you exclude GE Capital its tax rate has been about 21 percent.

White House defends embrace of G.E. CEO despite report company didn't owe taxes in 2010 - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Another goody:
GE’s Scandalous Tax Breaks Are Rooted in Politics
GE’s Scandalous Tax Breaks Are Rooted in Politics | BNET

[shooz]

Welcome to the Plutocracy.......
GE is not alone.

[shooz]

Here's a few more.
Enjoy........
At least GE and Boeing make something besides gas or money laundering.

Release: Tax Time? Not for Giant Corporations - Newsroom: U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders (Vermont)

[Phil1]

I had to laugh, CBS 60 Minutes had a piece on this today and stated the US corporate tax rate at 35% is essentially insane when Ireland, Switzerland and a bunch more are in the 10% range. Since many things can be relocated in an instant or in a matter of hours now, (formulas, patents, designs, software, intellectual property etc) global tax gravity has cost the US many billions in jobs, taxes and future development. Maybe we should raise the rate to 40% for a while and speed the flow.

The CBX quote was close to 'The US had the highest corporate tax rate of any country'.

[shooz]

Consider that CBS is one of them.
I don't suppose they went into much detail about various and sundry write offs, rebates, deferments, etc.
It can't be all that bad.
I don't suppose they mentioned the return of record corporate profits, healthy bonuses, or the fact that Wallstreet is doing fine, trading over 12,000 again.
Or the other fact, the the commodities are having a strong year, with the bbl trading over $105.
Watch for record profits in the oil corps. that got the rebates.
Corporate tax rates are as real as inflation, or unemployment numbers.

Then again, there is the funny part.
The right always mentions Obama along with GE.
They seem to suddenly forget they were calling him a CommiScociaNazist not that long ago.
Turns out he's a Capitalist after all, just like I've been trying to tell you.
Who's zoomin' who?


PLUS!!! He's a hawk!
What's not to love?

[jogiba]

I had to laugh, CBS 60 Minutes had a piece on this today and stated the US corporate tax rate at 35% is essentially insane when Ireland, Switzerland and a bunch more are in the 10% range. Since many things can be relocated in an instant or in a matter of hours now, (formulas, patents, designs, software, intellectual property etc) global tax gravity has cost the US many billions in jobs, taxes and future development. Maybe we should raise the rate to 40% for a while and speed the flow.

The CBX quote was close to 'The US had the highest corporate tax rate of any country'.

Greed is good, the rich and corporations want the working middle class to be their slaves and to pay the bulk of taxes in this country .
The new tax havens - 60 Minutes - CBS News

You Tube

You Tube

[jeffkrol]

I had to laugh, CBS 60 Minutes had a piece on this today and stated the US corporate tax rate at 35% is essentially insane when Ireland, Switzerland and a bunch more are in the 10% range. Since many things can be relocated in an instant or in a matter of hours now, (formulas, patents, designs, software, intellectual property etc) global tax gravity has cost the US many billions in jobs, taxes and future development. Maybe we should raise the rate to 40% for a while and speed the flow.

The CBX quote was close to 'The US had the highest corporate tax rate of any country'.

My guess is they COULD lower the tax rate to 10% AND close all loopholes and we would get MORE tax revenue...
Rates ARE NOT what a company pays.. WHO CARES what a rate is IF in fact it is not what you pay..
show me some figures on ACTUAL tax payments and gross profits THEN calculate the TRUE rate..
I do reserve the right to be proven wrong..
I'll start:
NOTE the NEGATIVE EFFECTIVE RATES...

Ostensibly, the U.S. federal tax code requires corporations to pay 35 percent of their profits in income taxes.

But of the 275 Fortune 500 companies that made a profit each year from 2001 to 2003 and for which adequate information to draw conclusions is publicly available, only a small proportion paid federal income taxes anywhere near that statutory 35 percent tax rate. The vast majority paid considerably less.

In fact, in 2002 and 2003, the average effective tax rate for all of these 275 companies was less than half the statutory 35 percent rate. Over the 2001-2003 period, effective tax rates ranged from a low of -59.6 percent for Pepco Holdings to a high of 34.5 percent for CVS.

Over the three-year period, the average effective rate for all 275 companies dropped by a fifth, from 21.4 percent in 2001 to 17.2 percent in 2002-2003.

The statistics are startling:

* Eighty-two of the 275 companies, almost a third of the total, paid zero or less in federal income taxes in at least one year from 2001 to 2003. In the years they paid no income tax, these companies earned $102 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But instead of paying $35.6 billion in income taxes as the statutory 35 percent corporate tax rate seems to require, these companies generated so many excess tax breaks that they received outright tax rebate checks from the U.S. Treasury, totaling $12.6 billion. These companies' "negative tax rates" meant that they made more after taxes than before taxes in those no-tax years.
* Twenty-eight corporations enjoyed negative federal income tax rates over the entire 2001-2003 period. These companies, whose pretax U.S. profits totaled $44.9 billion over the three years, included, among others: Pepco Holdings (-59.6 percent tax rate), Prudential Financial (-46.2 percent), ITT Industries (-22.3 percent), Boeing (-18.8 percent), Unisys (-16.0 percent), Fluor (-9.2 percent) and CSX (-7.5 percent), the company previously headed by current Secretary of the Treasury John Snow.
* In 2003 alone, 46 companies paid zero or less in federal income taxes. These 46 companies told their shareholders they earned U.S. pretax profits in 2003 of $42.6 billion, yet they received tax rebates totaling $5.4 billion. Almost as many companies, 42, paid no tax in 2002, reporting $43.5 billion in pretax profits, yet receiving $4.9 billion in tax rebates. From 2001 to 2003, the number of no-tax companies jumped from 33 to 46, an increase of 40 percent.
* In 2001, the Treasury paid corporations $40 billion in tax refunds, a third more than the 1998-2000 average.
* Then in 2002 and 2003, after the law was changed to expand tax subsidies and make it easier for corporations to carry back excess tax breaks to earlier years, corporate tax refunds skyrocketed to an average of $63 billion a year - more than double the 1998-2000 average.

Corporations are now paying the lowest levels of taxes in the post-World War II era.

The Gap Between Statutory and Real Corporate Tax Rates

Welcome to the real world of taxation................

soo let's see CVS move to INDIA...

[jeffkrol]

BAM..........

August 2008 report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), "Statutory tax rates do not provide a complete measure of the burden that a tax system imposes on business income because many other aspects of the system, such as exemptions, deferrals, tax credits, and other forms of incentives, also determine the amount of tax a business ultimately pays on its income." Indeed, World Bank and GAO data indicate that the U.S. effective corporate tax rate is lower than 35 percent and lower than several developed -- including some European -- economies.

WSJ ignored effective tax rate in claiming U.S. corporate tax rate "is higher than in all of Europe" | Media Matters for America


More.......
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/business/13tax.html?_r=1

Two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005, according to a report released Tuesday by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

http://www.thenation.com/article/159433/how-wall-street-crooks-get-out-jail-free

[jolepp]

... for which adequate information to draw conclusions is publicly available ...

This information might as well be available: the finances of the fortune 500 companies are very much of public consequence.

[GeneV]

A national sales tax combined with a fixed monthly payment to each citizen would have the net effect of progressive taxation and making dodging the same harder. .

Not a national sales tax, but perhaps a VAT for business. Most of the Fair Tax and the like proposals exempt business to business, like a sales tax. This is a hole you could pilot an airliner through. Here's just a small example: Business owner wants an SUV. His business buys it tax free and he drives it. If there is no income tax, there is no effective requirement for him to report the use of the vehicle as income. The whole transaction becomes next to impossible to tax. Now, everyone who wants an SUV just needs to incorporate a business. Now you need to check to see if this is a business that makes money. You end up putting the complexities back into the system that were supposedly removed, with evaluations of income, audits, representations as to use of property, etc.

I don't really think that it is that much harder for individuals to dodge consumption taxes, absent an income tax. However, corporations are another question. The only real reason to tax a corporation as a separate individual is for easy collection and to keep down tax avoidance. (I'm also being consistent about corporate personhood.) If it is not serving that purpose, then it is just making things more complicated, and it has some detrimental effects on corporate financial behavior.