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| 03-31-2011, 05:59 AM | #31 |
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it  Quote: never really occurred to me that way. honestly, I was more likely targeting the first group. Last edited by normhead; 03-31-2011 at 06:20 AM. | |
| 03-31-2011, 06:52 AM | #32 |
Originally posted by Wheatfield  Considering what American's do to countries that they do know something about, we are probably better off if our neighbors to the south show the ignorance that IRA displays with his posts. (And for our Australian friend, be *glad* if your elections seem boring, look what happened to *ours* when the news had to make profits by being entertainment instead of journalists, Just don't get complacent, cause that's exactly how you end up with the kind of right-wing nutjobs, corporate toadies, and incompetents we're dealing with here. ) As for Canada's, well, they're probably just hard to simplify down to one of the polarized narratives that people expect down here, that's probably a *good* thing. Just watch out for anything that looks too much like this mess down *here.* You end up like us with candidates for President blaming the as-yet-not-achieved possibility of equal rights for LGBT people for causing the financial crisis, (somehow) and 'joking' about how people should be forced at gunpoint to listen to a revisionist historian that wants to claim that civil rights in America only apply to Christians. ...And able to spend unlimited corporate money if they want to hatemonger their way into office. (While the corporate media portrays them as moderate-conservatives.) *I'm* fairly interested in Canadian politics, anyway: we're still very much looking at fleeing there. It's shaping up to be a real mess down here. Those Teabaggers and others that got in in the blue and swing states are at the slash-and-burn, doing as much damage (and cashing in for the corporations, probably in hopes of going national later) as they can while they're there, knowing they probably will be out on their butts next election. This has the effect of being likely to mess up a lot of the places in the US we'd been hoping to flee to, since our first priority is to get the Hel out of the South. Fact is, where *disinterest in your own politics* can go can end up here. The Republicans have little interest in *governing,* just class warfare and theocratic control and big money with vested interests in things we need to be moving away from. Politically, in a lot of places they've gone from being interested in winning-not governing to just making-the-other-guy-lose: if you look at national politics, they're trying to dismantle the people's ability to govern ourselves. A lot of this began with boring, boring stuff that only a corporate accountant or lawyer could love... Back when people were complacent and all. | |
| 03-31-2011, 07:27 AM | #33 |
| Quote: *I'm* fairly interested in Canadian politics, anyway: we're still very much looking at fleeing there. Of course for the proponents of Big Business and the Christian right , that won't be an issue. They don't care about human rights, freedom or anything else, they care about making money and their agenda. For the American right, the only freedom one should have, is the freedom to vote for them. If you don't see it their way or vote for them they make up lies about you and call you names. Kinda like Castro, of course they don't see it that way. | |
| 03-31-2011, 07:39 AM | #34 |
| Originally posted by normhead Margaret Atwood's "the Handmaid's Tale" coming true. The underground railroad is getting it's parts in order. The champions of freedom, exploiting it's basic tenants to kill it. People using the letter of the law to ignore the spirit, and appointing people to the Supreme Court that support their narrow view. Harper has done all those things up here plus, in this country. he's also stacked the Senate (unelected) with his supporters. If Harper wins a majority, you won't have anywhere to flee to. Of course for the proponents of Big Business and the Christian right , that won't be an issue. They don't care about human rights, freedom or anything else, they care about making money and their agenda. For the American right, the only freedom one should have, is the freedom to vote for them. If you don't see it their way or vote for them they make up lies about you and call you names. Kinda like Castro, of course they don't see it that way. I truly miss having a leader with a Vision, having grown up with Trudeau and Rene Levesque battling it out, and Ed broadbent leading the NDP and making sure labour and human rights issues were front and center. Christ in comparison even Stanfield looks good it's sad to watch politics that have no vision, whether you agree or not, and the lack of charisma at the leadership level is astounding. Not that i would want Harper to be charismatic enough to sell his vision. The Canada I grew up with and believe in is slowly being eroded in the name of corporate profit Norm is right RML when he says if Harper gets a majority there will be no place for you to run. and the thing that pisses me off the most is the apathy of voters the turnout at the polls will likely be the same crappy % as last time. In 33 years of being able to vote I have never once missed the opportunity and can't believe people who take no interest in voting (then of course bitch and whine about the course the country is on) | |
| 03-31-2011, 07:44 AM | #35 |
| Originally posted by normhead Margaret Atwood's "the Handmaid's Tale" coming true. The underground railroad is getting it's parts in order. The champions of freedom, exploiting it's basic tenants to kill it. People using the letter of the law to ignore the spirit, and appointing people to the Supreme Court that support their narrow view. Harper has done all those things up here plus, in this country. he's also stacked the Senate (unelected) with his supporters. If Harper wins a majority, you won't have anywhere to flee to. Of course for the proponents of Big Business and the Christian right , that won't be an issue. They don't care about human rights, freedom or anything else, they care about making money and their agenda. For the American right, the only freedom one should have, is the freedom to vote for them. If you don't see it their way or vote for them they make up lies about you and call you names. Kinda like Castro, of course they don't see it that way. True enough, though, actually, in Canada there's a lot less entrenched about it than down here, and you don't seem to have *already* stratified your wealth to the degree that they could really just economically-starve out resistance, which is not incidentally what a lot of the current GOP policies could do, by effect if not intent. One thing that's been croaking us a long time down here is a little thing called 'Normalcy bias.' If Harper really wants to imitate the corporate/Christian Right alliance down here by playing neocon, he might find it's a lot harder if America *really* goes south. You're in a different sort of position up there, and as things get weirder down here, 'It can't happen here' can turn to 'Holy Mother of Punk, we're gonna *make* it not happen here.' | |
| 03-31-2011, 07:51 AM | #36 |
| Originally posted by normhead it Some people just like telling you you said something you didn't and then complain because (they say) you said it. It's one of the forum games. But I just want you to know If there are some guys on here who throw tea parties or there are some women who have balls, that's OK with me.  | |
| 03-31-2011, 07:55 AM | #37 |
| 03-31-2011, 08:14 AM | #38 |
| Originally posted by normhead it Some people just like telling you you said something you didn't and then complain because (they say) you said it. It's one of the forum games. But I just want you to know If there are some guys on here who throw tea parties or there are some women who have balls, that's OK with me.  joking aside, my personal criticism about the politics here and we have talked about it with some of my colleagues here some nights ago is that women in politics aren't given much attention. although, having said that, which political system has ever been predominantly made up of women? personally, there is still some gender bias attributed to this. I guess we know now where the tea went to. as far as gender bias is concerned, what's up with WALMART ? any truth to this supposed discrimination? | |
| 03-31-2011, 10:22 AM | #39 |
| Originally posted by eddie1960 Well you are welcome up here when you decide to flee RMl, Quote: my sisters wife is from Atlanta, and now works at UofT, and seems very happy here (mind you from what i've heard of her family i would be happy to be further away as well, they are in the christian right camp, Pretty certain their Lesbian Quaker professor of religion daughter is not a source of familial pride If this was *my* town, my attitude would be different. Kinda doubt they'd appreciate some Bostonian chick berating them in politics and all. Kind of a write-off, here. state government's one big development scam, for the most part. Frankly, it'd probably be worse for us if there *was* much serious opposition. The only thing stopping them from playing the bigotry card so much is that they don't *have* to, and I count that about eighty percent likely to change in a hurry when these economic policies don't *work* and they'll need to divide the Democratic (largely black) vote between the more- homophobic churches and the traditional liberals. Anyhow. One side of the border or the other, I kind of want to use the time I have left in my life to *build* something, Tired of slogging around mostly wringing my hands and nursing a well-earned Cassandra complex. I see patterns a lot better than timeframes, and I've had a terrible feeling we're on track to be cutting it damn close, sweetie and I. The fact that the Right seems to be playing at some kind of end-game at least in the states they can't hold is pretty damn spooky, not to mention infuriating, (Just cause you may see it coming doesn't mean it's not an *emotional* shock, kind of like the first time a basher gut-punches you. Speaking of lessons learned.) Not to get too martial about the metaphors, but as for American dreams, we've gotta find a place to hold the line *somewhere,* and about something real. I'll start with a town that don't hate my kind so much. There's a lot of basically-good people prone to do terrible things down here, and I don't want to see it. We got a little sample here when a black guy shot and killed two cops, the white cop died, and the black cop was seriously-wounded. It was kind of weird, at first everyone reacted like you'd expect, pretty much, but it sort of festered into those divisions these nice folks usually don't acknowledge, but the non-whites (And most non-straights,) are usually pretty conscious of. You could just see it. Politenesses I'd never seen fail before, on the part of the white folks around, (It'd seem I don't count in some ways, there, despite a conspicuous melanin deficit) ...no one hanging around or passing through, (Not that all the people who *would* be hanging around were necessarily model citizens, but *everyone* was spooked, and I kept getting kind of blindsided by kind of a look of well, almost relief when I'd run into non-white folks I'd usually see in passing and they hadn't seen any reaction like something'd changed. ) Funny thing about that is, I used to think near all the cops around here were rookies trying to be all hardass or something, that's just how they are, I guess. The guy who was wounded, well, he would like front the same way, (I guess that's just how they do it, here) but he'd smile at you if you saw through it. (Between being from a police family, having tried my old Canons at scanner-chasing, and apparently having gotten a little used to small towns where you know *all* the cops by sight and it's like 'Hey, Andy,' *unless* they're actual rookies, (or Fundies) trying to be hardass, I still wave to cops a little out of reflex. Some try to front like they're the Marines, and some actually seem to think they're in freaking Watts or something, ...And Gods know what they think of *me,* but sometimes it seems like they're thinking 'One of them' when a good beat cop would probably be thinking from what they see of me, 'Friendly agoraphobe.' Wandering off-topic, but, eh. Kind of hope the dude that was wounded comes back. For him, at least, you knew that you scanned as 'Belongs here, harmless,' as opposed to a lot of the people in uniform being like 'No one belongs here.' Place like this, when silence breaks rhythm and stays too long, that's cue to not-be-here. It's like when the woods get too quiet. This was a discrete, identifiable, dealable situation, and it'll pass, but it's also the kind of situation that'll paint fairly clearly where a lot of the stress is, like cracks in plaster. And where the wedges are tapped in. Definitely don't want to be in the South. When they do Handmaid's Tale type stuff in the politics here, people mostly try to ignore it. Cause you can't really call it 'tense,' but a certain amount of effort goes into maintaining the casual in this state. Beats arrant *crazy,* (Though it'd seem enough of that comes *out* of this state) but *whooof.* Canada sounds pretty good, in a lot of ways. Really does. Wherever I may be, just don't go this way. As for my country, Rat's an interesting totem animal: cause if America can't get out of her own way before she finds herself sold, she's sunk. and when it comes to things nautical, that, sometimes means you can do more by voting with your little rat feet. Don't give up the ship, America, Certainly don't call out the exterminators when you should be thinking 'seaworthy.' In some places, rats are known for industry and persistence, in others, we're scapegoats for someone trying to moralize their way out of a hull breach. Check below the waterline, sports fans. To stretch the metaphor, some are saying, "Flood the boiler room, that'll stop those annoying knocking sounds! To *prove* there's no wave coming, we're going to turn broadside to that-what's not happening! That'll teach you! " (I mean, I really don't know how much of their own denialism they really believe, but does it matter? Hint: Compulsive gamblers, anyway: it *doesn't* matter.) Btw, Pentaxor: Quote: ever heard of the green party? but then again, it's Canadian politics. people might not heard of it from the south Actually, *I'm* a Green, for what it's worth down here. (And maybe all it *is* worth in this two-party system is finding a place where we can show how it's done. You can see what arguing's worth down here these days.)
Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-31-2011 at 10:41 AM. | |
| 03-31-2011, 10:29 AM | #40 |
| Originally posted by Ratmagiclady Hee, glad to hear it. I'll tell you one thing that really struck me when we were checking out our immigration eligibilities and stuff for Canada, was, 'Wow, Canada seems to see some *value* in me. ' Probably we could only make it there as a couple, nonetheless, it'd fit fine with my general plans to be a more-productive citizen somewhere, and though I happen to be a highly patriotic American, a less-stressed me up there could probably do as much as a me down here practically-immobilized by just being constantly on the defense when what we really need is a WWII-like effort at converting to sustainable energy and efficiency. Yeah, I'll have you know I'm *not* from here, if you didn't know, though. If this was *my* town, my attitude would be different. Kinda doubt they'd appreciate some Bostonian chick berating them in politics and all. Kind of a write-off, here. state government's one big development scam, for the most part. Frankly, it'd probably be worse for us if there *was* much serious opposition. The only thing stopping them from playing the bigotry card so much is that they don't *have* to, and I count that about eighty percent likely to change in a hurry when these economic policies don't *work* and they'll need to divide the Democratic (largely black) vote between the more- homophobic churches and the traditional liberals. Anyhow. One side of the border or the other, I kind of want to use the time I have left in my life to *build* something, Tired of slogging around mostly wringing my hands and nursing a well-earned Cassandra complex. I see patterns a lot better than timeframes, and I've had a terrible feeling we're on track to be cutting it damn close, sweetie and I. The fact that the Right seems to be playing at some kind of end-game at least in the states they can't hold is pretty damn spooky, not to mention infuriating, (Just cause you may see it coming doesn't mean it's not an *emotional* shock, kind of like the first time a basher gut-punches you. Speaking of lessons learned.) Not to get too martial about the metaphors, but as for American dreams, we've gotta find a place to hold the line *somewhere,* and about something real. I'll start with a town that don't hate my kind so much. There's a lot of basically-good people prone to do terrible things down here, and I don't want to see it. We got a little sample here when a black guy shot and killed two cops, the white cop died, and the black cop was seriously-wounded. It was kind of weird, at first everyone reacted like you'd expect, pretty much, but it sort of festered into those divisions these nice folks usually don't acknowledge, but the non-whites (And most non-straights,) are usually pretty conscious of. You could just see it. Politenesses I'd never seen fail before, on the part of the white folks around, (It'd seem I don't count in some ways, there, despite a conspicuous melanin deficit) ...no one hanging around or passing through, (Not that all the people who *would* be hanging around were necessarily model citizens, but *everyone* was spooked, and I kept getting kind of blindsided by kind of a look of well, almost relief when I'd run into non-white folks I'd usually see in passing and they hadn't seen any reaction like something'd changed. ) Funny thing about that is, I used to think near all the cops around here were rookies trying to be all hardass or something, that's just how they are, I guess. The guy who was wounded, well, he would like front the same way, (I guess that's just how they do it, here) but he'd smile at you if you saw through it. (Between being from a police family, having tried my old Canons at scanner-chasing, and apparently having gotten a little used to small towns where you know *all* the cops by sight and it's like 'Hey, Andy,' *unless* they're actual rookies, (or Fundies) trying to be hardass, I still wave to cops a little out of reflex. Some try to front like they're the Marines, and some actually seem to think they're in freaking Watts or something, ...And Gods know what they think of *me,* but sometimes it seems like they're thinking 'One of them' when a good beat cop would probably be thinking from what they see of me, 'Friendly agoraphobe.' Wandering off-topic, but, eh. Kind of hope the dude that was wounded comes back. For him, at least, you knew that you scanned as 'Belongs here, harmless,' as opposed to a lot of the people in uniform being like 'No one belongs here.' Place like this, when silence breaks rhythm and stays too long, that's cue to not-be-here. It's like when the woods get too quiet. This was a discrete, identifiable, dealable situation, and it'll pass, but it's also the kind of situation that'll paint fairly clearly where a lot of the stress is, like cracks in plaster. And where the wedges are tapped in. Definitely don't want to be in the South. When they do Handmaid's Tale type stuff in the politics here, people mostly try to ignore it. Cause you can't really call it 'tense,' but a certain amount of effort goes into maintaining the casual in this state. Beats arrant *crazy,* (Though it'd seem enough of that comes *out* of this state) but *whooof.* Canada sounds pretty good, in a lot of ways. Really does. Wherever I may be, just don't go this way. As for my country, Rat's an interesting totem animal: cause if America can't get out of her own way before she finds herself sold, she's sunk. and when it comes to things nautical, that, sometimes means you can do more by voting with your little rat feet. Don't give up the ship, America, Certainly don't call out the exterminators when you should be thinking 'seaworthy.' In some places, rats are known for industry and persistence, in others, we're scapegoats for someone trying to moralize their way out of a hull breach. Check below the waterline, sports fans. YouTube - Pearl Jam - Rats  | |
| 03-31-2011, 10:59 AM | #41 |
| 03-31-2011, 11:05 AM | #42 |
| 03-31-2011, 11:36 AM | #43 |
| Originally posted by eddie1960 Gotta admit I can't quite picture living down there. not that I haven't enjoyed time in various US cities but the idea of bailing on Canada for the US is unthinkable to me. Bailing on Canada for parts of Europe is a whole other story, but that is more to do with lifestyle choice than i gotta get outta this place YouTube - Animals - We Gotta Get Out Of This Place  | |
| 03-31-2011, 11:40 AM | #44 |
| 03-31-2011, 11:40 AM | #45 |
|
Maybe I could help by coming up and shaking Harper's hand and drawling in my best Dubya impression (Which isn't good but doesn't have to be) , 'Nice to meetcha, Mr. Harper, yer a great 'Merkinn.' Frankly, unless he was politely not mentioning special exemptions against LGBT families, that's not as evil as most American Religious Right types would be, feeling obligated to reassure that queers couldn't possibly get any benefits from it, and all, even if it was our own biological kids. Course, a funny thing about the Right down here is that they seem to simultaneously believe that we're both incapable of breeding, need to be bred out, making 'sinful choices' but inherently have certain characteristics, are both not an identifiable minority but a clear and present danger to human decency even if anyone hears about us, inherently inferior but encouraged to fake being straight and breed anyway, not being oppressed, hindered, or disadvantaged in any way but civilization will fall if we aren't, especially if people aren't allowed to bully us or get away with hate crimes, which don't happen, which is why it's unfair if anyone is prosecuted for 'expressing their disagreement....' and, otherwise well, we're apparently to be simultaneously erased, denied, converted, expelled, and purged. Lovingly, of course. With extreme prejudice. Which isn't bigoted in any way. For freedom! But not like a civil rights struggle, see, the majority says so, even when they don't. You know, it could be worse up there. Tax cuts for the Cleavers? Eh, maybe... I mean it, it could be worse up there. Careful. My favorite version, btw: Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-31-2011 at 11:52 AM. | |
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