[Wheatfield]

Lets see, 1 small insane group burns paper and incites a larger insane group to murder a bunch of people not associated in any way with the smaller insane group on the other side of the world.

Makes perfect efn sense.

Wondering if you would feel some anger towards a person who put a bible on your flag and pissed and crapped on them, and would it matter what part of the world they were in?
After all that's just paper and a rag.

[les3547]

redrock, I couldn't agree more in every respect. I feel the same as you and recently heard about this book:
Attachment 87500
Which I've ordered.

Well, I have read it and find Hitchens a fool because he seems incapable of distinguishing between God and religion. They are two completely different issues. Whatever folly the religious indulge in has absolutely nothing to do with the possibility of a conscious universe (which some have called "God"). Further, a great many in religion are more humble, loving, kind, and giving because of their participation. But my fool label for Hitchens is mostly because he thinks religion is what is "poisoning" everything. I would bet my life that if religion did not exist, and never had, human beings would be doing the exact same stupid, cruel, thoughtless, self-serving stuff they now do.

What happens is that when it comes time for a selfish human being to act as such, he looks around for some sort of justification. Religion, with the almighty God of the universe behind it, is a fantastic justification for self-serving jerk-ness. But Stalin didn't need religion did he? Nor Joseph Bonanno, or Mao, or Czar Nicholas, or Pasha, or Pol Pot, or Hirohito, or Kim Jong, or Kaiser Wilhelm, or King Leopold, or any of the numerous tyrants responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths over history. If we don't stop blaming the wrong things for our evil, we can never properly address it. Face it, it isn't religion or anything else that is behind evil . . . it is selfishly (versus enlightened) self-serving human beings.

[SteveM]

You have to read between the lines here. There is a civil war going on for control of this country. The protest march was being used as a cover for an attack. The Terry Jones incident was the excuse for the protest. If Jones had never burned the books, this attack would have happened anyhow under different pretenses.

I don't think that is the case at all. More importantly, there is a lot of blood spilled the last few years all in the name of trying to win over the local population. We all know that without that, the war is lost.

and now this happens......what was the point in going into that country in the first place if we are just going to piss everyone off, leave, and have it more extreme than ever? I thought the whole idea was to prevent something like 911 from happing again.

[ryan s]

Florida pastor Terry Jones burns Koran after mock trial
Complete with video of the burning...

I love the part where they convict the Koran for killing people. By the logic they used the Bible should be similarly convicted. As should Jones himself since his actions were the spark which caused the murders in Afghanistan. Plenty of responsibility all around.

I caught the end of the Nightline interview with that piece of work, and he's taking absolutely no responsibility for inciting the riot.

Ironically, security costs him/them so much money, he put his church up for sale on Craigslist He acts so fearless but requires protection...

If we don't stop blaming the wrong things for our evil, we can never properly address it. Face it, it isn't religion or anything else that is behind evil . . . it is selfishly (versus enlightened) self-serving human beings.

This is the heart of the matter--only that some use religion as the justification for their extremism. It is still their human nature (gone wrong) which cause conflicts. Trying to find justification for violence in either the Bible or the Quran is fruitless...it's the people interpreting them to support their own viewpoints which is the problem.

And in my opinion, trying to accomplish this makes the person less "holy" than more, if you will.

[redrockcoulee]

I caught the end of the Nightline interview with that piece of work, and he's taking absolutely no responsibility for inciting the riot.

Ironically, security costs him/them so much money, he put his church up for sale on Craigslist He acts so fearless but requires protection...

This is the heart of the matter--only that some use religion as the justification for their extremism. It is still their human nature (gone wrong) which cause conflicts. Trying to find justification for violence in either the Bible or the Quran is fruitless...it's the people interpreting them to support their own viewpoints which is the problem.

And in my opinion, trying to accomplish this makes the person less "holy" than more, if you will.

Hence if religion is never to blame Pastor Jones did nothing wrong. The Afghans protesting in the streets were just being selfish.

[les3547]

Hence if religion is never to blame Pastor Jones did nothing wrong. The Afghans protesting in the streets were just being selfish.

Pastor Jones is simply being an ass, and looking for some way to justify that. He could as easily be an ass as a member of KKK, the Neonazis, in the name of nationalism, as an anarchist, etc.

It amazes me that anyone thinks getting rid of religion would get rid of those who convince the masses to do something or believe mindlessly. If that theory is correct, shouldn't atheistic societies be free of mass ignorance? And on that list of dictators I listed above were quite a few atheists, the lack of religion didn't seem to help them.

[shooz]

Ain't this clowns 15 minutes up yet?
Every statement I've heard from him is vile.

[stevewig]

.............It amazes me that anyone thinks getting rid of religion would get rid of those who convince the masses to do something or believe mindlessly.......

Les3547 please skim through the whole thread - nobody in the thread (I think ???) is blaming RELIGION, everybody seems to be in basic agreement that the problem is the human beings espousing various beliefs NOT the various religions themselves.

In any case that is assuredly my opinion!

[SteveM]

Les3547 please skim through the whole thread - nobody in the thread (I think ???) is blaming RELIGION, everybody seems to be in basic agreement that the problem is the human beings espousing various beliefs NOT the various religions themselves.

In any case that is assuredly my opinion!

The point of this thread was in the original title which was changes. It is not religion nor was it the locals that went stupid. It was meant to discuss how subjects in the US can be manipulated in helping the enemy while being too stupid to realize it and to identify who in government is to stupid to notice.

[les3547]

The point of this thread was in the original title which was changes. It is not religion nor was it the locals that went stupid. It was meant to discuss how subjects in the US can be manipulated in helping the enemy while being too stupid to realize it and to identify who in government is to stupid to notice.

I understood that, and I'll certainly limit my comments as you wish. I was responding to the couple of remarks that did seem to be blaming religion (such as recommending Hitchens' book).

[SteveM]

I understood that, and I'll certainly limit my comments as you wish. I was responding to the couple of remarks that did seem to be blaming religion (such as recommending Hitchens' book).

Sorry...not asking you to limit your comments. My comment was more in reference to my censorship here all in the name of free speech for pastor whackado.

[subeeds]

What Pastor Otta B. Gatorbait did is inexcusable. Who knows how many people will die over that stupid stunt? He was warned back in Sept. about the consequences this could have. All he did was pour fuel on a volatile situation. He doesn't care. He is looking for funding from radical Christians so he won't have to sell his "church" on craigslist or that awful furniture on ebay anymore. The IRS is still looking into him for that one. They suspect he made more money on ebay that he said, and...that could solve his financial problems if he went to prison. That man and his hate, any hate, just makes me ill.

[reeftool]

I was not trying to defend Terry Jones. I was pointing out the fact that the Taliban and and their insurgent supporters have been committing these kinds of atrocities for years and will most likely continue to do so, with or without the antics of idiots like Jones.

[Wheatfield]

I was not trying to defend Terry Jones. I was pointing out the fact that the Taliban and and their insurgent supporters have been committing these kinds of atrocities for years and will most likely continue to do so, with or without the antics of idiots like Jones.

OK, I grant you that, but at the same time, what is there to gain from deliberately provoking a reaction.

Here's metaphor for you.
What do you gain by banging on the fence of an aggressive dog as you walk by? What is going to happen to you if one day you bang on the fence and the gate is open?
This time, the gate was open.

I suppose, to carry this metaphor to the end, the dog gets put to sleep.....

[Phil1]

Steve: [I]""Do not jump only on Muslims or Islam because that is now fashionable and currently in the news - jump on Terry Jones too.

The only question with the events is who/whom is the more insane. If you have to pick one I would side with the murderers over the paper burners but hey, that's just me. (They both qualify). The Christian crazies seem to murder a few less in these times and don't seem to have a propensity to video head removals and such. I don't believe the Jesus people have an advertised reward system in place currently for doing so. Just an opinion. I am no friend of either one.

There is an easy test for this; burn a bible and a quran and count the world wide murders because of the act.

Burning them by the way is the approved way to dispose of used and tattered ones.