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04-04-2011, 11:19 AM   #91
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If burning a book is offensive, I have to wonder about blowing up a church???
http://globetribune.info/2011/03/09/deadly-riots-after-church-destroyed-in-egypt/

04-04-2011, 11:27 AM   #92
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The Egyptian military is rebuilding the Coptic church in Egypt. Egypt: Military rebuilding Coptic church destroyed by Muslims :: European Jewish Post
04-04-2011, 11:31 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by clmonk Quote
If burning a book is offensive, I have to wonder about blowing up a church???
Deadly Riots After Church Destroyed in Egypt | Globe Tribune.Info
And this has what to do with the topic?
04-04-2011, 01:25 PM   #94
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Action of destruction stem from thoughts of destruction and convictions that such actions are somehow justifiable/right. Someone with a bit more passion to act upon their 'beliefs'/thoughts is seen to be a terrorist but another with the same 'beliefs'/thoughts is not. If as Peter Zack mentions early on the thread Christians believed what the Bible says there would not the likes of this clown burning Qur'ans whether publicly, privately, or even mentally.

04-05-2011, 08:22 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
The Egyptian military is rebuilding the Coptic church in Egypt. Egypt: Military rebuilding Coptic church destroyed by Muslims :: European Jewish Post

The Egyptian people have in generally been a *great* example of late of how to deal with it when these religions' radicals try to set them against each other, really.

It's a land that's been through a lot since they burned Alexandria, seems they have learned it's better to have each other's backs than fall to fear and terror of each other, this is really how you do it.

Yeah, I'm talking about *pluralism,* here.
04-05-2011, 10:21 AM   #96
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Salman Rushdie's Fatwa No Longer Affects His Daily Life, Author Says

International Assistance Mission Massacre: 10 Civilian Volunteers Killed In Afghanistan

PAKISTAN: Muslims kill three Christian aid workers (as they promised they would) Bare Naked Islam

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/07/6-americans-killed-in-afg_n_674320.html

South Park censored after threat of fatwa over Muhammad episode | Television & radio | The Guardian

India: 1,000 Muslims shouted, "set the train on fire and kill the Hindus" - Jihad Watch

Muhammad cartoonist defies death threats

U.S. cartoonist in hiding after cleric's threat - US news - Security - msnbc.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/us/17cartoon.html?_r=1

Swedish cartoonist receives fresh death threats | Reuters

Folks, it doesn't matter if you are a backwater FL preacher or a European cartoonist , or a dentist volunteering to help kids. It doesn't matter if you are black ,white or yellow , Christian , Buddhist or Iroquois. The fact is that if you are not a muslim you are an infidel and most muslims couldn't care less if you live or die. The "fundamental extremists " would rather you die.
You all can talk about how this is Jone's fault as much as you'd like but the fact is that once again a group of subhuman vicious animals killed innocents because that's just what they do. If the world acknowledges taliban and other extremist groups as rabid dogs and deals with them accordingly things may change . Until then go ahead blame it on Jones but I'd suggest you either start bowwing towards Mecca or learn how to protect your own asses because you are infidels too.

Last edited by seacapt; 04-05-2011 at 10:37 AM.
04-05-2011, 10:50 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
. . . most muslims couldn't care less if you live or die.
That sort of gross generalization doesn't help. It is not true, antisemitic, and it doesn't promote cultural understanding with what amounts to possibly 25% of the world, a world that we are increasingly required to interact with. Why not limit your disdain for the relatively few extremists of the world, of which radicalized Muslims are only a part; let's not forget Neonazis, anarchists, skinheads, and our own white, Christian Timothy McVeigh types.
04-05-2011, 10:56 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
let's not forget Neonazis, anarchists, skinheads, and our own white, Christian Timothy McVeigh types.
Nobody seems to have any problem coming down hard on that crowd so why does everybody pussyfoot when it comes to radical muslims?

04-05-2011, 11:15 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Nobody seems to have any problem coming down hard on that crowd so why does everybody pussyfoot when it comes to radical muslims?
No one is pussyfooting about radical Muslim (terrorists anyway), but that's not what you said. You said ". . . most muslims couldn't care less if you live or die."
04-05-2011, 11:31 AM   #100
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The one who has the blood on his hands is Karzai himself.
Rather than explaining to his population that Jones is a fringe crank whose actions are reviled by most Americans, Karzai has made this his most recent anti-American cause célèbre, denouncing the Americans who have paid deeply in lives and treasure to support his inexplicably corrupt and unaccountable government.
04-05-2011, 11:33 AM - 1 Like   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Nobody seems to have any problem coming down hard on that crowd so why does everybody pussyfoot when it comes to radical muslims?
Are you aware that Jews for example were better treated and safer in Iran than in Europe prior to the end of WWII? That the Jews were unwanted in North America as well. That the Islamic countries had much more religious tolerance than many other countries until fairly recently? Some of the more radical countries in the Muslim world were secular until the early part of this century, Pakistan and Iraq come to mind and Syria still is to a greater extent than the countires the United States supports.

The Taliban were very close to allowing your army to come in and rouse Al Queda, most of the young Taliban wished to get rid of them anyways. However Bush was not long on negotiations. I myself support our occupation much less due to finding out that plus the detour to attack Iraq. Do the Taliban wish you dead, yes as long as you are occupying their country.

There are many reasons that the middle east and the Iran/Pakistan region has become radicalized. That they have become sub-human is not one of them. Road side bombs and suicide bomings sure seem like it though. But what about dropping bombs on apartment buildings? Once you start labelling people as sub human due to a different religion or because they are fighting you does little to ease any tension and if one was to list some of the things done by the US and its allies, especially in Iraq I think one could also use that label too. Doing so would only suceed in infrurating people like yourself and would not help in the discussion but how is the use of a predator drone killing a wedding party more enlightened than a suicide bomb.

There were and probably still are Americans who think that it matters not how many Iraqis or Afghans get killed by the troops or by each other and some even seem to think the more dead the better. Are these people any more human than the radicals over there in their thinking?

The reason for 'pussyfooting' is that the more outspoken we are at name calling and demonizing, the more ammunition that they have in recruitment. Denoucning their actions, aiding the moderates, etc are useful. Trying to make them even more resentful of us is not.

Sure do not hear a lot of condemnation of the religious right and them being labelled as sub humans each time an abortion doctor is gun down on the streets or even when they suceed in almost a legal act almost imposible to have.

I remember how worked up some of the educationed, well to do (from an International point of view) people after 9/11 with any images that showed Arab people dancing in the street celebrating. And Americans are not an occupied nation rather than are one that is occupying two and some over there believe that it is controlling many others. These are dark times in the Muslim world, certainly the radical fundamentalists have gotten even more control than anyone would like, but there were times in the past that it was us that were more fundamentalists and they were the tolerant moderates.
04-05-2011, 11:42 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnInIndy Quote
The one who has the blood on his hands is Karzai himself.
Rather than explaining to his population that Jones is a fringe crank whose actions are reviled by most Americans, Karzai has made this his most recent anti-American cause célèbre, denouncing the Americans who have paid deeply in lives and treasure to support his inexplicably corrupt and unaccountable government.
First of all the United States did not gothere to put in Karzai in power, they are in it for their own reasons and long before he came to power. He has little power over the nation due to its tribal nature and communications is not the best. The more he supports the US the more likely he is to die, remember we are occupying their country and many fighting us are simply not wanting foreign powers to control them.

Second of all what about the Canadian, British, Australian, Dutch etc who also died there fighting a war that was supposed to be against Al Qeuda?
04-05-2011, 11:47 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
First of all the United States did not gothere to put in Karzai in power, they are in it for their own reasons and long before he came to power. He has little power over the nation due to its tribal nature and communications is not the best. The more he supports the US the more likely he is to die, remember we are occupying their country and many fighting us are simply not wanting foreign powers to control them.

Second of all what about the Canadian, British, Australian, Dutch etc who also died there fighting a war that was supposed to be against Al Qeuda?
What this has to do with my post is beyond any human being. I was pointing out how Karzai told his people about Jones. The blood of those murdered is on his hands and the murderers themselves.
He could have said nothing.
04-05-2011, 11:56 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Folks, it doesn't matter if you are a backwater FL preacher or a European cartoonist , or a dentist volunteering to help kids. It doesn't matter if you are black ,white or yellow , Christian , Buddhist or Iroquois. The fact is that if you are not a muslim you are an infidel and most muslims couldn't care less if you live or die. The "fundamental extremists " would rather you die.
This type of generalization is exactly why I started this thread. Extremist, radical Muslims are not typically tolerated in these countries. There is a core element that is supported by countries that are not sympathetic to the west, benefit from this extremism, and use it for political and not religious reasons. Our actions have done a lot over the past decade to convert moderates into extremists and help our enemies. The statement above makes us the enemy for 25% of the world.

You have to remember that there are sizable Christian populations in these countries and they were tolerated until recently, but now they are under attack too. Why have things changed so radically the past 20 years to move us to such extremism?

These extremist whackjobs make life unbearable for the locals and it shouldn't be hard for us to show some sympathy and get their help in return. Instead, we communicate to them that we are untrustworthy and the enemy. If the goal is to bring the fight to ourselves, on our soil, then we are doing a very good job.
04-05-2011, 01:32 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnInIndy Quote
What this has to do with my post is beyond any human being. I was pointing out how Karzai told his people about Jones. The blood of those murdered is on his hands and the murderers themselves.
He could have said nothing.
Well, what your post had to do with the guilt of Pastor Jones is also questionable. You are saying Karzai is responsible for the effects of Jones' lunacy? That he is wrong to condemn Jones' for burning holy books?

Karzai is no jewel, and one wonders how many more days of power he will have, but he is not responsible for the outrage his people feel.
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