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05-18-2011, 06:36 AM   #46
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If you eliminate 36hr residency you will cut into the REAL doctors tee times...

The only reason med school costs so much is someone ie loans can make money off it..

EVEN before generating one dime someone wants a "cut".......

The only real justice left is the value of a dollar and who can "dip" on it...

cost of education is based on future EARNINGS not future benefit to society.

05-18-2011, 06:56 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
If you eliminate 36hr residency you will cut into the REAL doctors tee times...

The only reason med school costs so much is someone ie loans can make money off it..

EVEN before generating one dime someone wants a "cut".......

The only real justice left is the value of a dollar and who can "dip" on it...

cost of education is based on future EARNINGS not future benefit to society.
Some of that may be true, but it is a tiny drop in the healthcare profit bucket. I think they make it this onerous to limit the market. We could have more doctors making less money and spending longer with fewer patients. Instead, we have doctors maintaining their incomes by seeing more patients and spending less time.

The other thing I found fascinating in my recent neurosugery was that half the residents whom I met were not from the U.S. This was a public university at a public hospital. Do our students not make the cut?
05-18-2011, 06:57 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by shooz Quote
This whole housing thing was discussed here a long time ago.
before you came here.
That term is patently FALSE.
We would have been better off paying them off from the bottom up.
From the top down.....................NEVER worked.
NEVER will.
The mortgage thing is an old issue and is OT for this thread, I was just addressing it because it came up. On that issue though, there is more than enough blame to go around to the lenders, the borrowers, government regulators, and policy makers.

QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
The mortgage thing is a brilliant idea and after a few years people would start to forget their neighbor got their house for free..
Banks would have cleared ALL that bad paper that they were TOO HAPPY to accept and they could start all over issuing "home equity" loans. It would completely end the mortgage crisis....New flush homeowners would be mmore then willing to improve their home bringing up property values and tax revenues..
It would have just started the cycle all over again. A good portion of those people would cash out the equity, piss away the money, and we would be in the same situation once again a few years down the road.

I am happy to see house prices falling because in 2007 I was *saving* money to buy a house and with escalating housing prices, I felt like a I was chasing after a car. Its also not fair to actual poor people who rent to bail out and give people a free home for making irresponsible decisions.

This was actually tried with safeguards to prevent people who weren't qualified in the first place from accessing help, the "Making Home Affordable" program, but it found that most people who got into mortgages shouldn't have.

QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Comparing not understanding the mountain of paper shoved under your nose at a real estate closing or the public failing to understand Credit Default Swaps with drunk driving is really inappropriate.
How about the analogy of a totally sober person voluntarily taking the stick from a trained pilot to try to land a small airplane with their family on board? Its stupid of the pilot to relinquish control, stupid of the person to take control, the family is going to be the ones most likely to be hurt for the idiotic decisions being made, and it endangers the community around the airport as well. If you want to blame the cheerleaders in the media and marketers who gave people advice to buy, buy, buy do you also blame Garmin when someone listens to there GPS instead of using their common sense and drives off a cliff?

Mountain of paper or not, heres what should be evident and be able to be understood out by anyone whose qualified to take responsibility for owning a home... your borrowing a huge sum of money and you have to pay it all back with interest. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If the Loan Amount is less than or equal to (monthly payment * 12 months * 30 years) its too good to be true. Introductory terms whether it is for cable, phone service, credit cards, or mortgages are always an incentive so if the terms are going to change/adjust down the road and you can barely afford the loan now you definitely won't be able to afford it then.

QuoteQuote:
By the way.......Who doesn't want electricity?
People always want electricity, its a question of how much electricity they want. People in Detroit want a lot more electricity at 7 PM on the coldest day of the year than they do when it is 4 AM and 70 degrees outside. If the power company produced power to handle a peak load all the time, they would have to throw it away because there are very few good ways to store large amounts of electricity. This is a major thrust behind the "smart grid" and plug-in electric cars, find ways to store that power so that plants can run at close to full capacity and intermittent sources like wind and solar power can be utilized on a utility scale effectively most of the time and old dirty coal plants can be dismantled.
05-18-2011, 07:11 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote


How about the analogy of a totally sober person voluntarily taking the stick from a trained pilot to try to land a small airplane with their family on board? Its stupid of the pilot to relinquish control, stupid of the person to take control, the family is going to be the ones most likely to be hurt for the idiotic decisions being made, and it endangers the community around the airport as well. If you want to blame the cheerleaders in the media and marketers who gave people advice to buy, buy, buy do you also blame Garmin when someone listens to there GPS instead of using their common sense and drives off a cliff?

Mountain of paper or not, heres what should be evident and be able to be understood out by anyone whose qualified to take responsibility for owning a home... your borrowing a huge sum of money and you have to pay it all back with interest. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If the Loan Amount is less than or equal to (monthly payment * 12 months * 30 years) its too good to be true. Introductory terms whether it is for cable, phone service, credit cards, or mortgages are always an incentive so if the terms are going to change/adjust down the road and you can barely afford the loan now you definitely won't be able to afford it then.
The first analogy about the pilot is so far off what we are talking about that it does not make sense. Your average Joe is not comparable to the trained pilot. I don't even know what you are getting at there. The Garmin is also a bad analogy because what one saw out the window was consistent with the GPS. People were getting rich or at least getting better houses as a result of all this, and it went on for years.

That this is too good to be true may be obvious to you now, and it was obvious to me but it was not to most of the country from the top down. It also went on for so long that even the person who is skeptical feels at some point like a fool when all of his neighbors benefit. It actually required independent thought and a level of digging through the truisms that is unrealistic to expect. The entire financial industry was promoting these things, and the financial institutions were in fact looking to grab every penny possible from the middle class. It is mind-boggling that one expects the average working person of limited education and attention span to see through this.


Last edited by GeneV; 05-18-2011 at 08:24 AM.
05-18-2011, 07:37 AM   #50
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While the sums are relatively larger vs. individual finances, the crowd behaved just like crowds always do in bull markets and bubbles: Some sit out the entire thing, either long or uninvested, due to superior analysis and ethics (as the two of you) or through sheer inertia (me). Others take advantage of the run-up by flipping inventory and hope to be off the train when it crashes (some actually make it off with a tidy profit). The vast majority gets in on the sure thing late and stays too long - the proverbial widows and orphans towards the very end.
05-18-2011, 12:05 PM   #51
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It?s Hard Being a Bear (Part Six)?Good Alternative Theory? | Steve Keen's Debtwatch
billy blog


MMT debates - MMT Wiki


QuoteQuote:
Last week the Australian government proposed to cut net spending by $22 billion as it pursues (manically) its plan to push the budget into surplus by 2012-13. Please read my blog – Australian Federal Budget – more is not less and Time to end the deficits are bad/surpluses are good narrative – for more discussion on this point.

So what logic is the bank economist quoted above using when he advises us that we should have “tight fiscal policies so there’s no stimulatory factors to the economy”. Justice would be served if that character’s own job was tied to the labour underutilisation index. So that if unemployment and underemployment rises in the coming months as fiscal policy is tightened he should be forced to join the ranks of the idle and be forced to live on the below-poverty line unemployment benefit payment.


QuoteQuote:
The only way private consumption was able to growth as strongly as it did over this period was because the financial engineers (aided and abetted by lax regulation) convinced households to take on record levels of debt. Further, without this credit binge the economy would have slowed dramatically and the federal government would not have been able to run the surpluses for as long as they did. The Australian economy would have hit the US post Clinton surpluses recession as well.
QuoteQuote:
Conclusion

So while the headlines read that workers enjoyed a 3.8 per cent pay rise over the last year the reality is that in real terms this was a miserly 0.4 per cent and all the while the contribution they were making to production was growing at 1 per cent. The bosses cry in public about rising business costs (and are aided and abetted by these pathetic bank economists) but in private they know exactly what is going on.

QuoteQuote:
Crushing Austrian critiques of MMT: It’s obvious how to do it. Looking at the comments section at The Pragmatic Capitalist (Cullen is doing gods work over there) and Mises.org reminds me how hard it is to think scientifically. Some people – smart, educated, talented, productive people – can miss the subtle differences of scientific vs. logical thought, and there is little we can do to remove the scales from their eyes.

Oil demand is inelastic: We cannot impact the price of oil at all – so why bother with targeting it with monetary policy? Matt Rognlie says something similar here.

More soon!
Our Story so far… The Traders Crucible

Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-18-2011 at 12:11 PM.
05-18-2011, 12:18 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
It is mind-boggling that one expects the average working person of limited education and attention span to see through this.
Given the widespread nature of the mortgage crisis, I think that if the mortgage contracts home buyers signed had misrepresented the expectations placed upon the purchaser or were somehow incomprehensible by a reasonable person successful court cases would have found mortgages to voidable by now. There have been successful challenges to delay foreclosure by getting the banks to hunt down the documents and there has been malfeasance on the banks part in fabricating backdated documents, but from what I have read or heard, when they finally get everything in order the banks have legitimate rights to foreclose because the mortgagee did not hold up their end of the contract.

There is plenty of blame to go around for that crisis. As much as the media and liberals might want to focus on how much the banks were to blame for it, the people who took these loans out share some culpability.
05-18-2011, 12:48 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
Given the widespread nature of the mortgage crisis, I think that if the mortgage contracts home buyers signed had misrepresented the expectations placed upon the purchaser or were somehow incomprehensible by a reasonable person successful court cases would have found mortgages to voidable by now. There have been successful challenges to delay foreclosure by getting the banks to hunt down the documents and there has been malfeasance on the banks part in fabricating backdated documents, but from what I have read or heard, when they finally get everything in order the banks have legitimate rights to foreclose because the mortgagee did not hold up their end of the contract.

There is plenty of blame to go around for that crisis. As much as the media and liberals might want to focus on how much the banks were to blame for it, the people who took these loans out share some culpability.
You may be confusing what is right and reasonable with what is legal in the financial industry. What the banks, realtors, mortgage brokers, title officers etc. did may be legal. That is not the point.

The jumping off point here was your statement that we would be rewarding some kind of bad or even illegal (comparing to drunk driving) conduct on the part of the borrower. I do not think that the conduct of the vast majority of the borrowers equates to malfeasance which would be in effect rewarded by paying off the loan. Almost no one reads those documents at closing, and closings are scheduled with that in mind. People are relying upon advice from professionals who have no financial incentive to do anything that does not close the loan.

Not that it matters, but I think there have been quite few suits against banks arising from their conduct in connection with mortgages, other than failing to document properly. Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase object of mortgage lawsuits - CSMonitor.com U.S. Government Suit: Deutsche Bank Lied About Mortgage Lending Practices - Halah Touryalai - Working Capital - Forbes Allstate Hits Citi, Deutsche Bank With MBS Suits - Law360 Most of these suits are brought by big companies who lost money insuring bad loans, but the basic facts are that they are knowingly making loans to people who don't qualify. This certainly carries implications about what is going on at the retail level.

05-18-2011, 01:09 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
Given the widespread nature of the mortgage crisis, I think that if the mortgage contracts home buyers signed had misrepresented the expectations placed upon the purchaser or were somehow incomprehensible by a reasonable person successful court cases would have found mortgages to voidable by now. There have been successful challenges to delay foreclosure by getting the banks to hunt down the documents and there has been malfeasance on the banks part in fabricating backdated documents, but from what I have read or heard, when they finally get everything in order the banks have legitimate rights to foreclose because the mortgagee did not hold up their end of the contract.

There is plenty of blame to go around for that crisis. As much as the media and liberals might want to focus on how much the banks were to blame for it, the people who took these loans out share some culpability.
NO...

Many Mortgages were written up by title companies (who are fobidden to lend) in order to avoid taxes...

Bottom line is the homeowner in these situations "owes the bank" but the mortgage is as secured as your CREDIT CARD....

Of course the last thing the bank is going to admit to is the fact you have an unsecured loan................

Other stuff..
Where's the Note? | Demand to see your mortgage note.

Justice huh........
QuoteQuote:
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York determined earlier this week that the ratings agencies, including Standard and Poor's, Fitch Ratings and Moody's Investors Service, could not be held liable for their ratings
Mortgage Crisis: N.Y. AG Investigating Bank of America, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley - ABC News



fun read:
FBI — Former Title and Escrow Agent Indicted for Mortgage Fraud

and
QuoteQuote:
n mid-March, CBS aired a “60 Minutes” segment that included interviews with people who had been hired to forge signatures on mortgage assignments. One person claimed he was required to sign up to 4,000 loan documents per day for a pay rate of $10 per hour. Due to the magnitude of required signatures, these bank employees have been deemed “robo-signers.”

The reason banks hired robo-signers is because they did not possess adequate documents to legally commence with foreclosure. They further magnified the problem by hiring employees to forge documents and have repossessed countless properties based upon double fraud.

One of the worst offenders ousted in ForeclosureGate is the state of Florida. Rolling Stone magazine journalist, Matt Taibbi, exposed procedures of Florida foreclosure courts. Taibbi revealed judges appointed to these special courts were pulled from retirement and have no experience in mortgage law.

Taibbi alludes to the fact that the appointed foreclosure judges are known for having favorable relationships with mortgage lenders. He also talks about Florida’s ‘rocket docket’ which expedites foreclosures through kangaroo courts; a process that strips homeowners of their right to due process.

According to Taibbi, “The American mortgage bubble of the 2000s is perhaps the most complex Ponzi scheme in human history.” Chances are Americans will never be privy to the full extent of mortgage fraud conducted by banks, but many foreclosed homeowners are taking action against the banking giants.

Numerous wrongful foreclosure class action lawsuits are in the works. In October 2010, Maine homeowners initiated a lawsuit against GMAC for foreclosure abuse, while New Jersey homeowners filed suit against Bank of America.
ForeclosureGate: America's Mortgage Foreclosure Scandal Real Estate Blog
Atlas gassed.............

In my area the only thing any deadbeat mortgage person I met (one mortgage went from $800/ month to around $1500 and of course the bank wouldn't reconsider the terms and they couldn't find any other bank to refinance it either during the dead of the freeze) was guilty of was listening to a banker tell them "in a few years you can refinance so that ARM won't apply" and of course that was a dream.....

Banks ect.. KNEW better but were driven by GREED plain and simple. Why do you think they made all the secondary products obtuse...........answer that one.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-18-2011 at 01:16 PM.
05-18-2011, 01:39 PM   #55
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Again, the subject matter of some of the suits I linked involved liar's loans and loans for investment properties which weren't carried as such. If the system is lying to their insurers, governments and purchasers of loans, the system is probably not completely straight with borrowers, either.

Now, I am sure there are some borrowers who lost their homes who just wouldn't have had a home if it weren't for the tricks and traps. However, there have been studies showing that most of the persons sucked into these loans could have qualified for better. It is unreasonable to expect a person of average education and intelligence to figure all this mess out. They rely upon numerous professionals. I am wondering when we see a rash of suits against realtors.
05-19-2011, 08:07 AM   #56
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QuoteQuote:
TIME magazine recently ran an article about inflation, which supplements what I’ve written earlier about the cause of inflation (See: http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/more-thoughts-on-inflation/ The Cause of Inflation

Think Commodity Prices Are High Now? Just Wait

Posted by ZACHARY KARABELL Monday, May 16, 2011
I just returned from a conference with some of the world’s leading money managers, and one theme was clear: there has been massive underinvestment in the global supply chain of industrial metals and raw materials. This is less about oil and gas than about things like copper, iron ore, palladium, titanium, zinc, rhodium, and a host of other “iums” that are the essential, irreplaceable inputs for the industrial world that we all inhabit and that billions are on their way to inhabiting. Simply put there is yawning gulf between demand and supply. . .

That means we are in for a period of rising commodity inflation, including oil and of course food as more people consumer more calories and crop yields strain to increase.
[. . .]
So unless China truly implodes or Brazil stops growing, or hundreds of millions in India and Indonesia stop believing that they have a right to the same middle class lifestyle that has characterized the West for the past century, we are at the early stages of a spike in commodity prices the likes of which we have never seen. And judging from debates in Washington over how much to spend on Planned Parenthood and how much to reduce pension of state workers, we are nowhere near prepared for this world that we are entering.


Debt-hawks endlessly cite the Weimar Republic’s hyper-inflation (which occurred 90 years ago under special economic circumstances) as an example of what growing U.S. federal deficits will cause “soon,” “some day” or “inevitably.” Factually they are wrong.

Hyper-inflation has been caused by circumstances unique to each affected nation, but always involve massive printing of money in response to existing inflation, not as the cause of, inflation. Analogy: Gasoline is necessary to make a car run, but if the car bursts into flame, you don’t keep adding gasoline. Hyperinflated nations pour gasoline on an already burning car.

Mr. Karabell writes the truth. Historically, inflation has been caused by rising production costs. In the economists’ mantra, “Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods.” The debt hawks focus on the “too much money” side, while the real cause has been too few (or really, too expensive) basic goods. Oil, whose price is manipulated, has been the main culprit, (See: INFLATION) and as a result of insufficient spending on basics, many other commodities are about to have increased involvement.

So yes, there will be inflation, “soon,” “some day” or “inevitably,” just as the debt-hawks predict, but the cause will not be federal deficit spending, as they surely will claim, but rather, oil prices and shortages of other basics.

In fact, inflation could be prevented were the U.S. to pump more money into oil exploration, other energy development, mining, plant and equipment development, R&D of all types, farming and other basics. Pumping more money would include tax breaks as well as deficit spending.

To build our economy efficiently, we need increased investment in its foundations.

Rodger Malcolm Mitchell
–Can increased federal deficit spending actually prevent inflation? Monetary Sovereignty – Mitchell
05-19-2011, 11:52 AM   #57
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The fact that we over consume resources at an unsustainable pace is a case for austerity and cutting our lifestyles down to something sustainable not to hit the gas on production and pissing away resources faster than we can replace or recover them.
05-19-2011, 06:34 PM   #58
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how do you plan on stopping the rest of the world from doing that???

seems , without spending on research, we are just driving ourselves "out of the game"

your kind of a bitter person aren't you............ at least towards individuals........
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