Democrat wins House election on Medicare issue

Ratmagiclady · 05-25-2011, 08:01 PM

Possibly, Wildman, But it also works both ways: the 'conservatives' may elect a lot of extreme-Right *candidates* with pretty hateful and irresponsible agendas, but a lot of *their* support doesn't actually want that: they just want the money.

(Not that *that* actually earns my admiration, or does me much good when the Right's just trying to direct as much stress and upset toward and upon folks like me among others as they can, ...but the 'Tea Party Republicans' kept insisting they *weren't* about a radical-Right agenda etc, (To the corporate media, at least) and of course immediately proved to be the opposite, not to mention mean-spirited and pretty worse-than- useless recovery-wise once in power.)

The GOP has a backlash coming about *that,* too, and it even shows in figures like how the people no longer oppose marriage equality, while anti-LGBT stuff has proven to be quite an obsession for this new crop of Righties with nothing productive to offer.

GeneV · 05-26-2011, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by wildman

I think in the long run Dems have to be careful about how they interpret
this.

It's possible that in such a conservative district most of these voters
are expressing the same conservative values they have always held - that
is narrow self-interest.

Many of them may depend critically on Medicare or have someone in their
family who does. Medicare may be the only thing that is keeping them
out of the poorhouse. With a huge unfunded (unpaid for) budget deficit
for Medicare, in the short run at least, Medicare is a good deal for
them and they don't want to lose it. So, in this case, voting
Democratic is consistent with their values.

I'd be careful to not read too much into the motives behind this vote. It does not
necessarily indicate support by these voters for a broader progressive
social and economic agenda.

This vote may have been more a tactical than a strategic change.

Learning some tactics would be useful.

I'd be more inclined to see this election as unique if the polling wasn't showing such overwhelming disfavor of the Ryan budget. Seniors vote, and that is not unique. That does not mean the Republicans won't patch it up by 2012.

GeneV · 05-26-2011, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by newarts

No. I think there is relatively little discussion of the consequences of the right's fiscal proposals; certainly not to the extent of the fear-mongering employed by the right.

Maybe they are not doing it well, but I think if you spend a little time looking at what Dems have said in ads for years, they have been talking about how the right is cutting or abolishing popular programs.

newarts · 05-26-2011, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by GeneV

Maybe they are not doing it well, but I think if you spend a little time looking at what Dems have said in ads for years, they have been talking about how the right is cutting or abolishing popular programs.

I agree. However they do not do it in an effective way.

You say... "....talking about how the right is cutting or abolishing popular programs"; yes but in a way that makes the opposition smile with satisfaction.

We have much to learn about how to modify opponent's emotional responses to the implications of actions which currently please them.

To say that the Ryan plan will "change medicare as we know it" is qualitatively different from scaring the pants off people. How about "changing medicare will cost you more" or "you will have to pay for your folk's nursing home care.

To wail that cutting food stamp expenditures will force people to find alternate sources of income is just what they want to hear; that's their purpose. But it can also be said that decreasing food stamp use will increase food prices; that decreasing food stamp use will result in more learning challenged children, that decreasing food stamp use will result in a greater load on ERs and increase your health care costs.... etc. etc.

Emotional response trumps rational thought almost all the time. In fact, emotional response LEADS rational thought most of the time - a person's initial response to an observation is emotional - rationalization of response occurs later and usually spins to support the initial emotion. When rationalization finally catches up with emotion pleasure centers light up in the brain.

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05-25-2011, 08:01 PM	#16
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Possibly, Wildman, But it also works both ways: the 'conservatives' may elect a lot of extreme-Right candidates with pretty hateful and irresponsible agendas, but a lot of their support doesn't actually want that: they just want the money. (Not that that actually earns my admiration, or does me much good when the Right's just trying to direct as much stress and upset toward and upon folks like me among others as they can, ...but the 'Tea Party Republicans' kept insisting they weren't about a radical-Right agenda etc, (To the corporate media, at least) and of course immediately proved to be the opposite, not to mention mean-spirited and pretty worse-than- useless recovery-wise once in power.) The GOP has a backlash coming about that, too, and it even shows in figures like how the people no longer oppose marriage equality, while anti-LGBT stuff has proven to be quite an obsession for this new crop of Righties with nothing productive to offer.

05-26-2011, 05:39 AM	#17
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by wildman I think in the long run Dems have to be careful about how they interpret this. It's possible that in such a conservative district most of these voters are expressing the same conservative values they have always held - that is narrow self-interest. Many of them may depend critically on Medicare or have someone in their family who does. Medicare may be the only thing that is keeping them out of the poorhouse. With a huge unfunded (unpaid for) budget deficit for Medicare, in the short run at least, Medicare is a good deal for them and they don't want to lose it. So, in this case, voting Democratic is consistent with their values. I'd be careful to not read too much into the motives behind this vote. It does not necessarily indicate support by these voters for a broader progressive social and economic agenda. This vote may have been more a tactical than a strategic change. Learning some tactics would be useful. I'd be more inclined to see this election as unique if the polling wasn't showing such overwhelming disfavor of the Ryan budget. Seniors vote, and that is not unique. That does not mean the Republicans won't patch it up by 2012.

05-26-2011, 05:41 AM	#18
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by newarts No. I think there is relatively little discussion of the consequences of the right's fiscal proposals; certainly not to the extent of the fear-mongering employed by the right. Maybe they are not doing it well, but I think if you spend a little time looking at what Dems have said in ads for years, they have been talking about how the right is cutting or abolishing popular programs.

05-26-2011, 06:11 AM	#19
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	Originally posted by GeneV Maybe they are not doing it well, but I think if you spend a little time looking at what Dems have said in ads for years, they have been talking about how the right is cutting or abolishing popular programs. I agree. However they do not do it in an effective way. You say... "....talking about how the right is cutting or abolishing popular programs"; yes but in a way that makes the opposition smile with satisfaction. We have much to learn about how to modify opponent's emotional responses to the implications of actions which currently please them. To say that the Ryan plan will "change medicare as we know it" is qualitatively different from scaring the pants off people. How about "changing medicare will cost you more" or "you will have to pay for your folk's nursing home care. To wail that cutting food stamp expenditures will force people to find alternate sources of income is just what they want to hear; that's their purpose. But it can also be said that decreasing food stamp use will increase food prices; that decreasing food stamp use will result in more learning challenged children, that decreasing food stamp use will result in a greater load on ERs and increase your health care costs.... etc. etc. Emotional response trumps rational thought almost all the time. In fact, emotional response LEADS rational thought most of the time - a person's initial response to an observation is emotional - rationalization of response occurs later and usually spins to support the initial emotion. When rationalization finally catches up with emotion pleasure centers light up in the brain.