[grhazelton]

They seem to be everywhere. Here's a group which is trying to convince the weak of mind (state legislatures!) that a fertilized egg is a person and deserving of legal protection, thus outlawing not only abortion, but apparently any form of contraception save - perhaps! - the condom, the diaphragm, and vastectomy.

Of course many fertilized eggs fail to implant themselves in the uterine wall, and many growing embryos are spontaneously aborted, often without the woman's knowledge. Are such events also illegal?

What might be next? Asserting that a menstrual cycle is indicative of the missed chance for a person, and thus is to be punished? How about nocturnal emissions? Obviously many potential persons wasted!

Follow this link if you dare.

Anti-Abortion Groups Push To Outlaw Contraceptives By Redefining Personhood | Truthout

Note that the maximum leader is Keith Mason, a male. I've always found it interesting that the guiding lights of anti abortion groups so often are men. Randall Terry of Operation Rescue comes readily, and revoltingly, to mind. Men have little "skin" in the game, do these trogdolytes merely wish to keep women - all women - barefoot and pregnant? Or do they secretly dislike and fear women and thus desire to oppress and demean them out of fear of competition or whatever?

Ah well, back to the glories of the Middle Ages....

[maltfalc]

Ga. Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages | Mother Jones

[Ash]

Of course many fertilized eggs fail to implant themselves in the uterine wall, and many growing embryos are spontaneously aborted, often without the woman's knowledge. Are such events also illegal?

To these 'black & white' anti-abortionists, yes. But don't tell them that, they'd get confused.

How about nocturnal emissions?

Indeed, how dare a man have wet dreams! They ought to design a semen-detecting probe and mandate all men to apply it on their underwear. Then on detection, an instant broadcast will occur to the SS (Semen Squad) who order an immediate dispatch of local police to apprehend and torment the blasphemous individual out of having any more such dreams. Ah, the thought...

[Ratmagiclady]

Actually, not 'Only In America.' There's a certain amount of precedent for this attitude. Some call it 'Religious.'

Those 'simple absolutes' end up getting complicated, don't they?

But, yeah, it's insane. Especially when they try to use it to redefine 'rape' to make the victims the criminals, or biological processes to define people who suffer miscarriages as 'murderers' while, what. Refusing to stop the EDCs for corporate profit.

Calling people 'sinners' is cheap.... That's why they do it.

[Ash]

Some call it 'Religious.'

Yeah, the ignorant do.

This quote is particularly amusing:

Keith Mason, the president of Personhood USA, is transparent about his motives: “Certainly women, my wife included, would want to know if the pills they’re taking would kill a unique human individual. And I think there’s a lot of misinformation about that, or lack of information.” Sadly, Mason is not alone. Rachel Maddow reports that this Saturday is the fourth annual Protest the Pill event. Each year the event, put on by another fringe group called American Life League, features slogans like “The pill kills babies,” “The pill kills women,” and “The pill kills marriage.”

Ironic that some people actually believe this, the same people citing that misinformation is what's stopping everyone from accepting that the pill kills...

[Ratmagiclady]

This quote is particularly amusing:

Keith Mason, the president of Personhood USA, is transparent about his motives: “Certainly women, my wife included, would want to know if the pills they’re taking would kill a unique human individual. And I think there’s a lot of misinformation about that, or lack of information.” Sadly, Mason is not alone. Rachel Maddow reports that this Saturday is the fourth annual Protest the Pill event. Each year the event, put on by another fringe group called American Life League, features slogans like “The pill kills babies,” “The pill kills women,” and “The pill kills marriage.”

Ironic that some people actually believe this, citing misinformation is what's stopping people from accepting that the pill kills...

Errr, what?

'The pill' does not 'kill.' Just cause there are unique genetics to any given bit of spoo combined with any given ovum *doesn't* mean it's 'killing' someone to *not make that particular body.* People who insisted so, nearly *killed* my mother, me, my sister, and my nephew, if nothing else will convince you that some things just aren't for moralists to impose.

It may have even *actually* killed a brother I never got to know. (Not so sure, there, but some things far more heavy-handed than 'the pill' were sold on the very premises you spout here)

But they treated perfectly-natural miscarriage as something so shameful, that there's been nary a child born to my family for thirty years that didn't require heroic medical intervention.


Maybe that was someone else's choice. Maybe, I even try to respect that. What I *don't* respect is people treating me *and* my mother as if everyone had to be in pain so they can claim some 'comfortable' definition.

Then of course, treat me as a 'mistake,' 'Freak of nature,' cause, you know, while there's always been totally natural ways to 'turn out queer,' it's really *irritating* to hear people claiming that massive doses of prenatal hormones are only a factor if they're used to reinforce some idea that not-having-babies makes a woman a criminal, but of course never to accept that, hey, sometimes this is what you get.

Same people want to insist *I* have children in some sham marriage and call *that* 'natural,' or else treat *me* like a 'murderer'

No.

I'm actually still thankful for my life, but you know, it's not something I'd *demand* anyone else go through, and forget about some clump of cells, ...if there's anything 'unique' about the person I am, then that person probably *would* say, 'It's OK, Ma. This is nothing to get yourself ripped open over.

Wasn't my choice, either, you know, but it shouldn't have been about shame and fear and scorn. And some idea 'suffering is good for you.'

Yeah, I like to think I'm pretty unique, but I'm a leaf on the wind. And every leaf, every snowflake, every *wind* is unique and precious. There will and would be others. More pointedly: You can't force it. That's actually a good thing, you know. That's *why* the preciousness. Things have a way of going very , very, bad when someone tries forcing it..


It's kind of like sex itself, motherhood is: If you try and force it upon another, *you profane it.* What's more, you *break* it. It's something deeply sacred and it needs hearkening to quieter voices than politicians and theocrats say to do *right.*

[Ratmagiclady]

Anyway, Ash, I'm pretty sure you aren't reading this, but .....Maybe it's not a question of if it should or must be 'controlled' (By of course, someone like you) ....Maybe, ....it just *can't* be dictated or imposed. And maybe that's why it's something sacred.

[grhazelton]

Ratmagiclady, parsing Ash's post does not suggest to me that he believes that "the pill kills." Could it be that his final sentence was not constructed in the best possible fashion? I really think that he should be given the benefit of that interpretation. I didn't see in his response anything suggesting other than his bemusement (perhaps a better term than "amusing") at the intellectual dishonesty of the Personhood USA folk, and the American Life League.

I didn't see anything in his post suggesting that he wanted to control sex or motherhood.

Just my observations....

[Ratmagiclady]

Ratmagiclady, parsing Ash's post does not suggest to me that he believes that "the pill kills." Could it be that his final sentence was not constructed in the best possible fashion? I really think that he should be given the benefit of that interpretation. I didn't see in his response anything suggesting other than his bemusement (perhaps a better term than "amusing") at the intellectual dishonesty of the Personhood USA folk, and the American Life League.

I didn't see anything in his post suggesting that he wanted to control sex or motherhood.

Just my observations....

Possibly.... Or maybe that's why he supports he position he does.


He's not supported much about 'burdens of proof' while calling women 'murderers' if we don't kneel to his Bible thang.


Meanwhile, back in reality:


Tell Texas school district: Don't make survivor pay $35,000 for refusing to cheer for her rapist!


Tell you what, if there's some reason I should figure he mistyped while supporting Dominionist agendas from way over there, .... I'd like nothing better than to need to apologize. I'm trying to get who a sane world would call my *wife* out of the state of Georgia without one or both of us losing our civil rights for her PhD. So she can help un-**** your biosphere.

Do you have any idea how little patience I have for anyone telling her she ought to get raped and bring a child to term in the year 2011 cause some Christian says 'Murder?' Do you have the *slightest* idea what this is about when we're in a state that says we're both fair game cause of shit like Ash says from Australia?


Any fecking idea at all?


Same big boys who want the *guns* and whine like they're all unmanned and everyone hates their Jesus if they can't have 24 round pistol magazines.


Dig?


Can't you see this is *wrong?* It's actually the dearest desire of my heart that I can get my sweetie someplace she can call *home,* but I don't understand how you Christians think*rape* is supposed to be more acceptable than the idea I *mean* that.

I do mean it, though, you know. We didn't ask to come here, and we *sure* didn't think it was selling away the rights to our bodies just to try and fix what you broke. Not her. Not without getting past *me* though. and some might find me a little testy on some subjects. Pardon if I'm short with anyone. We're not even supposed to *be* here.

[Ash]

I didn't see anything in his post suggesting that he wanted to control sex or motherhood

Wow, now that would be a feat, wouldn't it?!?
I don't know how what I posted ever suggests my supporting anti-abortionists or that I believe the pill kills or that I would want to control sex or motherhood. But hey, I'll remain amused, but not bemused.

[Ratmagiclady]

Wow, now that would be a feat, wouldn't it?!?
I don't know how what I posted ever suggests my supporting anti-abortionists or that I believe the pill kills. But hey, I'll remain amused, but not bemused.

Well, if it wasn't what you mean, Ash, it could be the notion you claimed:

misinformation is what's stopping everyone from accepting that the pill kills..

Just offhand, of course.


Or.....You know what kills? People thinking they got an excuse to kill people.


I find this irritating. It cramps my Jedi shit.

So happens I have a real talent for not-hitting people. I happen to be fair good at it, but I consider it a workplace safety infraction, You know that, Ash? You say a bunch of things, but you defend some notion my dear one and I are criminals.

You. are. Wrong.

You believe people are 'fallen' and 'evil' and that 'humannature' is 'bad' but you *still* insist you must 'punish' someone over some f'n thing or other.


I love someone. And I tell you right now. Not her. Me. If you must.


Don't think it makes you 'holy,' dumbass, though. You want your pound of flesh, take it from *me,* Christian Not her Me. That's all I ask.


And it doesn't make you 'right,' either. I'd very much like to go somewhere I can call 'home.' I don't think you can understand that, though, Ash, and I pity you.

Christian.

You Tube

You Tube

Wrongs have been done, but *this* is my home. and your *book* has squat-all to do with that.


I mean it.


I'm guessing someone wasn't banking on it, but I'm made *of* this place. And I do not kneel.... Easily.

If I still have anger, this is the song of it.


So, hear:

You Tube

You Tube

Punk did not die: someone just *finished* it.


And you, Christian, think you're entitled to some kind of say in this matter. You. Are. Not. Bzzt. Try something else. Spud.

How bout this, with your idea of what constitutes who sticks what in someone's where.... No.

No.

No. We got work to do.

[Ash]

Or do they secretly dislike and fear women and thus desire to oppress and demean them out of fear of competition or whatever?

Could come down to irrational thoughts of this sort. Or that the men are secretly jealous that they cannot fall pregnant themselves.

But seriously, any authorities who would even consider outlawing any form of contraception, even the morning-after pill, and convicting pill-takers for a crime akin to homicide (like they can actually prove that!) are froot loops.

[Ratmagiclady]

Could come down to irrational thoughts of this sort. Or that the men are secretly jealous that they cannot fall pregnant themselves. But seriously, any authorities who would even consider outlawing any form of contraception, even the morning-after pill, and convicting pill-takers for a crime akin to homicide (like they can actually prove that!) are froot loops.

Do you really think there's anything that abstract about it, when you pronounce all humanity 'fallen' or do I need to sing to you some more before you insist women need to suffer for your righteousness some more?


Do you think anyone gives a sh** when they're raping you, Christian? *Stupid.* Just stupid. Do you think anyone gives a shit, Ash? Do you really think anyone gives a shit, while you look for someone else to 'blame,' cause 'blame'is all you worship? Do. You Think?


This land is alive. All you sell is *death.* And.... I will refuse.

I'm also very sorry, but, dude. You're hurting people. You're really hurting people. And it has to stop.. I'm very sorry.

[Ash]

I don't know how what I posted ever suggests my supporting anti-abortionists or that I believe the pill kills or that I would want to control sex or motherhood. I'm amused, but not bemused

What's more amusing is that I'm considered to believe that the pill kills and yet I'm prescribing and administering contraceptive agents on a daily basis... someone lock me up, I'm a mass murderer!

[paperbag846]

'The pill' does not 'kill.'

The pill, like cellphones, and at one time, cigarettes, is *linked* with increased cancer rates, but not conclusively. I don't think it will stay this way forever. Private studies are not available to us (for a reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

The pill can kill mothers, eventually. However I agree that it is not unethical to block fertilization, or to preform an abortion before the 1st trimester.