[Mike Cash]

The Facebook apologists seem to have an almost cult-like zeal for evangelizing to non-believers to come join them.

Why should they give a crap one way or the other if someone else doesn't want to join?

[DRabbit]

The Facebook apologists seem to have an almost cult-like zeal for evangelizing to non-believers to come join them.
Why should they give a crap one way or the other if someone else doesn't want to join?

The anti-facebook zealots are just as boisterous and strong in their convictions, if you ask me. Actually, it was their loud protests that even sparked my questions in the first place.

And I don't personally care if they join or not. This discussion started as a curiosity on my part... I wanted to hear why some people were SOOOO against it. At least some of that adversity, I believe, comes out of ignorance (not all, so don't flame me! LOL). Some people seem to also think it's an all-or-nothing proposition, as if when you join Facebook you suddenly lose all common sense and becomes a loud-mouth voyeur who can't control him/herself and who can do nothing but post photos of themselves doing things that would get them fired. I merely raise the point that it doesn't need to be that way. LOL!

I know for most of the non-virtual people I know, the ones that are so against FB are either fearful/paranoid or philanderers (literally)... so I was curious to hear other reasons.

[dgaies]

The Facebook apologists seem to have an almost cult-like zeal for evangelizing to non-believers to come join them.

Why should they give a crap one way or the other if someone else doesn't want to join?

I respectfully disagree. I think the "Facebook apologists" just want the facts presented accurately because it seems there is quite a bit of misinformation about the "perils" of using Facebook. I personally don't give a crap one way or another who's a member of Facebook and who isn't, but I often feel compelled to try and correct misconceptions that may prevent others from utilizing a useful resource (whether it is Facebook or something else).

[K-9]

The anti-facebook zealots are just as boisterous and strong in their convictions, if you ask me. Actually, it was their loud protests that even sparked my questions in the first place.

And I don't personally care if they join or not. This discussion started as a curiosity on my part... I wanted to hear why some people were SOOOO against it. At least some of that adversity, I believe, comes out of ignorance (not all, so don't flame me! LOL). Some people seem to also think it's an all-or-nothing proposition, as if when you join Facebook you suddenly lose all common sense and becomes a loud-mouth voyeur who can't control him/herself and who can do nothing but post photos of themselves doing things that would get them fired. I merely raise the point that it doesn't need to be that way. LOL!

I know for most of the non-virtual people I know, the ones that are so against FB are either fearful/paranoid or philanderers (literally)... so I was curious to hear other reasons.

Many other reasons besides privacy:

1. Facebook has silly video games. I don't play video games anyway, and certainly wouldn't play their childish stuff like Farmville.

2. I talk to my family on the phone if I need to; I go to their houses, they come over mine. I don't need to provide them with status updates on a daily basis.

3. Heck, there are family members I don't speak to for months and want to keep it that way, and certainly don't want them to know what I am doing from day to day.

4. Any friends worth having as Facebook friends I would see in real life, hangout, do things, talk in person. I don't need to go hangout with them, then come back online the minute I come home and be like "dude, that was awesome what we just did tonight". Pretty lame stuff.

5. Trite, trite, trite. Nearly every aspect of the site, from it's banal home pages, to it's horrible photography, to it's asinine games is BORING. At least myspace had customizable backgrounds/pages/music/etc.

6. I can think of 72 other sites I'd rather visit online and spend my time.

Believe me, it goes WAY beyond the privacy issues and stuff like that.

[dgaies]

Many other reasons besides privacy:

1. Facebook has silly video games. I don't play video games anyway, and certainly wouldn't play their childish stuff like Farmville.

2. I talk to my family on the phone if I need to; I go to their houses, they come over mine. I don't need to provide them with status updates on a daily basis.

3. Heck, there are family members I don't speak to for months and want to keep it that way, and certainly don't want them to know what I am doing from day to day.

4. Any friends worth having as Facebook friends I would see in real life, hangout, do things, talk in person. I don't need to go hangout with them, then come back online the minute I come home and be like "dude, that was awesome what we just did tonight". Pretty lame stuff.

5. Trite, trite, trite. Nearly every aspect of the site, from it's banal home pages, to it's horrible photography, to it's asinine games is BORING. At least myspace had customizable backgrounds/pages/music/etc.

6. I can think of 72 other sites I'd rather visit online and spend my time.

Believe me, it goes WAY beyond the privacy issues and stuff like that.

1. You don't have to play the silly video games

2. Having a facebook account doesn't preclude you from seeing people in real life

3. You don't have to be friends with people you don't want to be friends with on facebook

4. There is no requirement to go on facebook and post right after you hang out with friends

5. I never used mypsace so I can't compare

6. I can only come up with 37 sites that I'd rather visit

FWIW, I'm not really a huge fan of facebook myself, but I do find value in certain aspects of it and I'm not one to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[DRabbit]

Many other reasons besides privacy:

1. Facebook has silly video games. I don't play video games anyway, and certainly wouldn't play their childish stuff like Farmville.

The "block" feature works great.

2. I talk to my family on the phone if I need to; I go to their houses, they come over mine. I don't need to provide them with status updates on a daily basis.

Works great when they're all local. I can't visit or talk to everyone on the phone daily when they're in Seattle, Washington, North Carolina, Vermont, Pennsylvania, Texas and Canada.
And seeing their photos or sharing on Facebook doesn't make the phone disappear or the car explode. You were aware of that, right? LOL

3. Heck, there are family members I don't speak to for months and want to keep it that way, and certainly don't want them to know what I am doing from day to day.

That's what the "hide" feature is for. Or block. And you do know that when you make #2 in the bathroom you don't HAVE to post it right? Geez, I think I post on my personal profile about twice a week.

4. Any friends worth having as Facebook friends I would see in real life, hangout, do things, talk in person. I don't need to go hangout with them, then come back online the minute I come home and be like "dude, that was awesome what we just did tonight". Pretty lame stuff.

Sure, if you say so.
I went to a baseball game with my daughter, son, his girlfriend and my husband last Friday. I tooks some photos there... and it was fun to share them later that night with my son and his girlfriend (who are grown). It was fun to share with our own friends pictures of my excited-like-a-little-kid husband. Lame? Maybe. Still fun. But why take photos and share them with anyone anyway... as you say, it's just lame.

And see above about multiple states. I'm lucky I get to take one vacation per year, let-alone multiple to travel to all the different places my friends and family live. Plus, most of my cousins are 1/2 my age, and don't exactly want to spend a lot of time with their 40yo cousin. It's fun to keep up with them through FB.

I've met some pretty nice people through Facebook... in actual person - GASP! See my reply about the photography meet I attended. Was in NYC. Was fun! Oh wait... you don't like fun, I forgot.

5. Trite, trite, trite. Nearly every aspect of the site, from it's banal home pages, to it's horrible photography, to it's asinine games is BORING. At least myspace had customizable backgrounds/pages/music/etc.

Yes, I'm sure Joel Meyerowitz is a terrible photographer, just because he's on Facebook. And I know, you're too thick to realize you can block asinine games (or maybe you don't realize you aren't forced to play them?). Oh yeah, and you're right, those animated starry-night backgrounds on MySpace made every page beautiful.

I don't consider additional interaction with the people I care about, or new interaction with interesting people all that trite.

6. I can think of 72 other sites I'd rather visit online and spend my time.

AWESOME! Visit away. I hope you don't spend any time checking email or answering your phone, since all that personal interaction might get in the way of your important 72 websites.

Believe me, it goes WAY beyond the privacy issues and stuff like that.

I see. You have enlightened me.


ps. My tone may seem rude, but really it's all tongue-in-cheek. You aren't going to convince me, and I'm sure I'm not going to convince you... and really, it doesn't matter at the end of the day. I'll readily admit that lots of Facebook is pointless, but so are a lot of other things is life... and I'm sure lots of things in your life. To me, a little light interaction that's fun and harmless isn't a bad thing.

And to be completely serious... I have a cousin who lives far away. His daughter was burned BADLY in a house fire. We keep in touch in a variety of ways, but it's been WONDERFUL to see how well she's doing through his updated photos on Facebook (harmless, fun photos, like participation in Field Day at school). It's not ALL pointless, just because you say so.

[Mike Cash]

I respectfully disagree. I think the "Facebook apologists" just want the facts presented accurately because it seems there is quite a bit of misinformation about the "perils" of using Facebook. I personally don't give a crap one way or another who's a member of Facebook and who isn't, but I often feel compelled to try and correct misconceptions that may prevent others from utilizing a useful resource (whether it is Facebook or something else).

Why did you put the term Facebook apologists inside quotation marks?

[dgaies]

Why did you put the term Facebook apologists inside quotation marks?

I put the term inside quotation marks because that was the phrase that you used to describe people who saw value in using Facebook. I personally don't see the need to apologize for anything in regards to defending the potential usefulness and value in utilizing Facebook.

[Mike Cash]

I put the term inside quotation marks because that was the phrase that you used to describe people who saw value in using Facebook. I personally don't see the need to apologize for anything in regards to defending the potential usefulness and value in utilizing Facebook.

Ah....so it was just a simple matter of not knowing the meaning of "apologist". I didn't use it to describe people who saw value in using Facebook; I used it in its correct meaning. I am a firm believer in Rule 13. (See also: "apologia").

[dgaies]

Ah....so it was just a simple matter of not knowing the meaning of "apologist". I didn't use it to describe people who saw value in using Facebook; I used it in its correct meaning. (See also: "apologia").

I know the meaning of the word, however, I am suggesting that there is a negative connotation assoicated with that phrase and I was merely using the quotes to attribute the choice of that particular term to you.

[Mike Cash]

I know the meaning of the word, however, I am suggesting that there is a negative connotation assoicated with that phrase and I was merely using the quotes to attribute the choice of that particular term to you.

The only people who associate a negative meaning with the term are the ones who don't know the meaning of the term. I used it in its strictly correct sense...to refer to people who are offering a verbal defense. I am not responsible for the ignorance of others.

[dgaies]

The only people who associate a negative meaning with the term are the ones who don't know the meaning of the term. I used it in its strictly correct sense...to refer to people who are offering a verbal defense. I am not responsible for the ignorance of others.

You are correct, you are not responsible for the ignorance of others. You are also correct that you used the word in its strickly correct sense. I am not arguing against either of those points.

However, being aware of how specific terms and phrases are perceived (even if that perception is based on ignorance) is important in my opinion. I realize you likely disagree with that statement, and that's fine, as I am not going to try and convince you otherwise. Again, my original use of the quotes was simply to designate that the choice of terms was yours and not mine.

[mikemike]

ps. My tone may seem rude, but really it's all tongue-in-cheek. You aren't going to convince me, and I'm sure I'm not going to convince you... and really, it doesn't matter at the end of the day. I'll readily admit that lots of Facebook is pointless, but so are a lot of other things is life... and I'm sure lots of things in your life. To me, a little light interaction that's fun and harmless isn't a bad thing.

Its possible to use facebook in a meaningful and safe way, but the encouraged and most common usage is for thoughtless, narcissistic self promotion of the aspirational lifestyles of the poor and indebted.

Facebook is just slightly more worthwhile than reality television and slightly less dangerous to society than eating fried chicken everyday. Its one of things which seems to be okay and harmless fun, but has the potential to be a major contributor to the downfall of western civilization.

[Mike Cash]

However, being aware of how specific terms and phrases are perceived (even if that perception is based on ignorance) is important in my opinion. I realize you likely disagree with that statement, and that's fine, as I am not going to try and convince you otherwise. Again, my original use of the quotes was simply to designate that the choice of terms was yours and not mine.

I don't disagree with that statement. But I also don't feel any sort of obligation to write with the LCD in mind.

I understand your original use of the quotes and thank you for the clarification.

[DRabbit]

Its possible to use facebook in a meaningful and safe way, but the encouraged and most common usage is for thoughtless, narcissistic self promotion of the aspirational lifestyles of the poor and indebted.

Don't disagree. But coming from the group that is shouting they aren't "sheep" that "follow the heard", I hardly see this as THE argument.

Facebook is just slightly more worthwhile than reality television and slightly less dangerous to society than eating fried chicken everyday. Its one of things which seems to be okay and harmless fun, but has the potential to be a major contributor to the downfall of western civilization.

Now that was great to wake up to and read. Very very funny. ROFL!
Though I'll have to say, eating fried chicken every day is probably, for most people, a lot more dangerous.

PEOPLE and their actions will be responsible for the downfall of society. You can't blame the medium in which they use. Just like you can't blame the networks for the popularity of reality TV. If it wasn't so popular, it wouldn't continue to be on... but we -- as a society -- watch it, so they keep making more. If everyone stopped watching, the networks would put something better on.

Similarly, FB can be used however people choose. If we all educate ourselves and then our loved ones about it, and if we all encourage thoughtful behavior instead of just fostering our own narcissism, it becomes a better environment. At least that's been my experience. I'd even suggest we've raised a generation of narcissistic children, and NOT because of or even as a direct result of Facebook.

I'm sure people said similar things about the downfall of society at the advent of the phone... at the advent of radio and then TV... at the rise of the internet itself. When I was growing up, my father used to call the TV an "idiot box" and my parents yelled at me to get off the phone the same way I yell at my daughter to get off the internet. Balance my friend. Anything in excess is bad.

Facebook is merely a means to communicate, nothing more.