[K-9]

K-9... go look up "Google Conspiracy" on YouTube.
ANYTHING you do on the internet tracks you by IP address. IP address can be tracked right back to your house.

And people choose to share what they want. I can choose to ONLY let friends see my friends list. It's not availlable to everyone. I can CHOOSE to share my photo or not, and even what I upload to my profile AS my photo (it could be a photo of a sheep if you like... LOL). I can CHOOSE what I share there. No one FORCES me to use my last name, a photo of myself, include my birthday or even let anyone see who my friends are. Those are all choices. It's as private or as open as I want it to be. You don't even have to be searchable if you don't want.

As for the "herd" comments... it's funny because most of my friends think I'm crazy for NOT using my real last name. I don't do it because I'm paranoid... I'm just "old school" internet, back from the days we didn't share our last name so freely. By the way, every day you use your credit card at a store (in the real world) you share all kinds of info about yourself... so let's not pretend Facebook is any more evil than anything else we participate in daily. I'd venture a guess that a lot of people here want credit for their photos and watermark them with their name, then proceed to share photos of all kinds of things around where they live. How is that any different?

FYI, most IP addresses can only be used to track approximate locations. Most times, it's not even the right town that comes up. It's mostly the town your internet provider runs their service through.

As I said, there was no choice or option when Facebook went public. All users full names were suddenly public, and yes they could go into the options and change it, but no one did and hence, the whole facebook world goes by both names.

When I buy something with a credit card, a few people who work for that company get my real address, but who cares? They are probably 7 states or more away, have no idea who I am, or care who I am. There's a huge difference between the 3 people who handle your info where you order something from, and the 1000's of people who can look at your facebook daily.

[Ratmagiclady]

I dunno, here, there isn't *absolute* security on the Net, whatever you do, but that doesn't mean you may as well end up advertising to the whole world (Or being advertised to *by* it, either.) (I follow this forum, anyway, so I don't really *need* the updates over FB, to begin with. ) I don't really like the idea of too much of this information on everyone in one place as it is: who knows, maybe it's the way of the world now, but if you'd ever been stalked or threatened, it doesn't mean you're worried about any kind of elite hackers, there: it's just a matter of trying to find a balance. (Especially if you've got a big mouth, )

[magkelly]

I don't have any interest in those type of social platforms. I don't do Facebook. I don't do Twitter. I was all gung ho to participate until I saw that. I don't have a problem with visiting a sponsor per se, but I'm not going to go and join Facebook just to be able to submit a photo to the contest, sorry. Why open an account I'll never use only to let it sit there blank just so I can upload and do the contest? That's not very practical.

[K-9]

Facebook single handedly caused this "full name out there" trend, which is against and unlike anything else on the internet. Had the site owners gave it more thought when they brought it to the masses from out of the college fold, there should have been something implemented where it automatically only displayed first names, with full names only seen on your profile page if you chose it to be public or to your friends. Aside from celebrities, businesses, and the media, no one uses full names on anything this widespread on the net other than facebook.

[lithos]

And assumably, since you're here on an internet site -- a social forum no less -- you're not off the grid

Forums are collaborative, Facebook is narcissistic (or masturbation, take yer pick.)

[Ratmagiclady]

Forums are collaborative, Facebook is narcissistic (or masturbation, take yer pick.)

Well, I think it has its place, it's just becoming another example of corporate over-reaching, and it's becoming quite intrusive in many ways, among other services. The 'targeted ads' really annoy me, too, lately: I'm like the next thing to anorexic, and I talk about cooking a fair bit, so what do I see? Lots of pretty uglified photos meant to advertise weight loss products. Gods know what kind of effect *that* might have on some kid with the actual body-image issues about it. Hec, you connect with people of non-traditional religion, you think every Evangelical dating service on the planet rented half your screen space when you weren't looking.


They'll be reading your keystrokes and selling em to whoever-in-the-world, you know? I think that does have a chilling effect, and maybe not all at once, but it's why some come to resent the FB thing. By degrees. People tend to ignore it, cause it's never any big deal at any one time, but who's not thinking, 'OK, what's going on with this?' Especially when FB starts changing the privacy rules over and over again.

And now you've got like a whole industry of people you can hire to 'sanitize' your FB history somehow, to seem more acceptable to the prying employers and everyone: what happens to 'free speech,' then? People censor *themselves,* instead of maybe taking this opportunity to really see we're a lot more human than some say we're 'supposed' to be. It's people paying money to perpetuate some illusion that no one worthwhile parties in college. If they're rich enough to cover it up, you know?

[DAZ]

It is a matter of risk to benefit versus costs and what you can do to mitigate the risks. To say that if you do one thing that is should not matter if you do some thing else is fatalistic. I.e. if you drive a car and you may have an accident then you should not bother with seat belts. For some the risk/cost (how much time and attention you have to spend staying on top of what FB is doing) is not worth the benefits. If some thing provides next to no benefits why take any risk. I may drive to the store but why would I street race?

Some may get caught up in things like “following the herd” and others may think the people that don’t like FB are luddites (not the most accurate but the most common usage today, although it is in this case probably closure to the original meaning then most know) are all side issues. The original point was about having to have a FB account (or any account other then PF) in order to join a contest on PF. If no one voices a disagreement then how is anyone to know there is a problem?

DAZ

[jogiba]

http://www.facebook.com/pentaxforums

PENTAX | Facebook

[Ratmagiclady]

The original point was about having to have a FB account (or any account other then PF) in order to join a contest on PF. If no one voices a disagreement then how is anyone to know there is a problem?

DAZ

Sure enough: I don't see a huge problem with unpacking a bit of the current of 'FB resistance' out there: I doubt PF had anything more in mind than 'Hey, we're going for a Facebook presence, let's promote it,' ...You know, it's not like I'm going to shrivel up and die without a chance at a free pancake lens or anything, ...nor is it even that big a deal about actually signing on to the contest for me, (Actually haven't decided: for a 21, maybe it'd be clearer: this one may just be something others'll get more out of, anyway. ) It's not like I'm all cheesed off at Adam or anything.

If I'm in any kind of shooting form, I'll participate in the World Pentax day, anyway, though. S'ok.

[magkelly]

The reason I don't have a Facebook page is the same reason that I don't just post my private pictures, info online. I don't particularly want every aspect of my life being searchable on Google. These people who post all their most intimate stuff in blogs, on Twitter, and on sites like Facebook, how many of them are finding that doing that comes back to haunt them?

I'm already having a rough time getting and keeping work. Last thing I need is anything out there in cyberspace that might reflect badly upon me when it comes to someone doing a hiring search. If people want to use sites like that, whatever, but I do think it's always best to be somewhat careful about what you're putting out there. It's not always good to just broadcast yourself and your life like that.

[DRabbit]

Facebook single handedly caused this "full name out there" trend, which is against and unlike anything else on the internet. Had the site owners gave it more thought when they brought it to the masses from out of the college fold, there should have been something implemented where it automatically only displayed first names, with full names only seen on your profile page if you chose it to be public or to your friends. Aside from celebrities, businesses, and the media, no one uses full names on anything this widespread on the net other than facebook.

And you don't have to either. Just think if everyone made the decision to use a pseudonym as their last name instead? Start a trend. I don't use my real last name there. Just because you can doesn't mean you have to.

Forums are collaborative, Facebook is narcissistic (or masturbation, take yer pick.)

THIS I don't disagree with. I often say Facebook is rather narcissistic. Of course, it's also what you make of it. I make an effort to look and participate with other photographers there, not just post my own stuff. I've met some great people that way.

Well, I think it has its place, it's just becoming another example of corporate over-reaching, and it's becoming quite intrusive in many ways, among other services. The 'targeted ads' really annoy me, too, lately: I'm like the next thing to anorexic, and I talk about cooking a fair bit, so what do I see? Lots of pretty uglified photos meant to advertise weight loss products. Gods know what kind of effect *that* might have on some kid with the actual body-image issues about it. Hec, you connect with people of non-traditional religion, you think every Evangelical dating service on the planet rented half your screen space when you weren't looking.

Google does this MUCH more than Facebook does... Facebook is playing catchup in this venue. Trust me, I work in marketing and know all about "behavior" tracking. Facebook or not, it's here to stay and you'll see it more and more. Search for laundry detergent on Google... well, we'll throw every laundry-based ad at yo0r for the next two weeks since that must be interesting to you. Problem is, it works... and that's why it's gaining popularity. If you search a lot on cameras, you're more likely to click on a camera ad, so that's why serving you up camera ads works better than serving you up olive-loaf ads. Behavior tracking and "shadowing" is all over the internet, whether we like it or not.

It is a matter of risk to benefit versus costs and what you can do to mitigate the risks. To say that if you do one thing that is should not matter if you do some thing else is fatalistic. I.e. if you drive a car and you may have an accident then you should not bother with seat belts. For some the risk/cost (how much time and attention you have to spend staying on top of what FB is doing) is not worth the benefits. If some thing provides next to no benefits why take any risk. I may drive to the store but why would I street race?

Some may get caught up in things like “following the herd” and others may think the people that don’t like FB are luddites (not the most accurate but the most common usage today, although it is in this case probably closure to the original meaning then most know) are all side issues. The original point was about having to have a FB account (or any account other then PF) in order to join a contest on PF. If no one voices a disagreement then how is anyone to know there is a problem?

Sure, voice your disagreement. I was just trying to understand where it comes from.
Risk? There's only risk if you allow it. The risk is no greater than you posting here on a forum if that's what you want it to be. Blindly joining FB with all your private information... yes, that is following the herd. If you want to protect your privacy, than make the effort to do so. Facebook doesn't prevent it.

The reason I don't have a Facebook page is the same reason that I don't just post my private pictures, info online. I don't particularly want every aspect of my life being searchable on Google. These people who post all their most intimate stuff in blogs, on Twitter, and on sites like Facebook, how many of them are finding that doing that comes back to haunt them?

I'm already having a rough time getting and keeping work. Last thing I need is anything out there in cyberspace that might reflect badly upon me when it comes to someone doing a hiring search. If people want to use sites like that, whatever, but I do think it's always best to be somewhat careful about what you're putting out there. It's not always good to just broadcast yourself and your life like that.

You act like you wouldn't be able to control yourself if you joined Facebook... like suddenly you'd lose brain-cells and post naked pictures of yourself drinking too much. You do realize you have a choice not to share dumb things there, right? -- and btw, your friends will post pictures of you there whether you're a member or not. At least if you're a member you'll know about it and be able to say "hey, could you remove that photo of me pole-dancing please?"

This is my problem with the overwhelming number of arguments against FB... as if you have no choices on how to act there once you've registered. That's like saying, "well I'm not going to go into a supermarket because then I'll be forced to buy junkfood, because you know, they make it widely available". Guess what, don't buy the junk food. You don't HAVE to.

Like anywhere else on the internet, you make the choice of what you're going to share. UNLIKE credit card usage, which gives you no choice NOT to share a lot of very private information about you.... like last five known addresses, birthday, income, credit score, social security number, what you purchased, how often you pay your bills, etc. etc.

Facebook isn't the bad guy here...

[dgaies]

This is my problem with the overwhelming number of arguments against FB... as if you have no choices on how to act there once you've registered. That's like saying, "well I'm not going to go into a supermarket because then I'll be forced to buy junkfood, because you know, they make it widely available". Guess what, don't buy the junk food. You don't HAVE to.

Like anywhere else on the internet, you make the choice of what you're going to share. UNLIKE credit card usage, which gives you no choice NOT to share a lot of very private information about you.... like last five known addresses, birthday, income, credit score, social security number, what you purchased, how often you pay your bills, etc. etc.

Facebook isn't the bad guy here...

+1.

I could not have said it better myself.

[jogiba]

When I fill up my car with gas in NJ I have to give my credit card to some guy I don't know and that is personal info that could cost you.

[magkelly]

Actually, I don't even like seeing my face in a family photo album. Any friend of mine that posts any pic of me sans my permission anywhere won't be for long, and btw, they know that. I'm far too smart to get caught with my panties down online. ;P But that's my point, I don't choose to parade my whole life on a Facebook page, because I am a very private type person, and sensible when it comes to where my personal stuff goes.

Many people today aren't though. They talk on the phone about the most sensitive things in public, post their children's pics, their full names etc online. They stupidly tell everyone when they going on vacation online and then cry when they come back to find their house has been burgled.

Common sense is a bit less prevalent than it used to be it seems. People who get into this habit of showing off everything they can get careless about it. You're right it's not Facebook that's the problem, it's the people USING it that need to think hard about "how" they are doing it sometimes.

I avoid it because I don't feel the need to have all that up there front and center for millions to potentially see. I'm not at all ashamed of how I live my life, but there are things, and I'm sure this applies to almost anyone, that I'd be fine with my friends knowing that I wouldn't be as okay with having an employer know.

You never know what other people might not like. Something as simple as a choice of an alternative religion for example or maybe supporting a certain cause or having ideals that an employer doesn't like for some reason just might cost you a job.

You act like you wouldn't be able to control yourself if you joined Facebook... like suddenly you'd lose brain-cells and post naked pictures of yourself drinking too much. You do realize you have a choice not to share dumb things there, right? -- and btw, your friends will post pictures of you there whether you're a member or not. At least if you're a member you'll know about it and be able to say "hey, could you remove that photo of me pole-dancing please?" Facebook isn't the bad guy here...

[Ratmagiclady]

The reason I don't have a Facebook page is the same reason that I don't just post my private pictures, info online. I don't particularly want every aspect of my life being searchable on Google. These people who post all their most intimate stuff in blogs, on Twitter, and on sites like Facebook, how many of them are finding that doing that comes back to haunt them?

I'm already having a rough time getting and keeping work. Last thing I need is anything out there in cyberspace that might reflect badly upon me when it comes to someone doing a hiring search. If people want to use sites like that, whatever, but I do think it's always best to be somewhat careful about what you're putting out there. It's not always good to just broadcast yourself and your life like that.

Yeah, certainly isn't: but if *no* one does, doesn't that preserve the illusion that most people are supposed to be or act all 'squeaky-clean' and uniform in the *first* place? Maybe that's part of *why* we all get treated as cogs in a machine, expected to take all the burdens of not being 'perfect' while those who play that game the *best* end up sitting in boardrooms, running the world...Badly... cause they don't have an idea in their *heads.*

Definitely the dumbest thing I ever saw in the corporate world: they exclude or file off everything and everyone that doesn't fit in a succession of ever-smaller-boxes and then, end up with a room full of stuffed-shirts, who they gotta hire someone to tell 'Try thinking outside the box,'

I mean, I know the score, but in some ways, a lot of this is just trying to adapt and preserve the mediocrity problem for a really intrusive 'information age.' ...and that's what worried me about playing *into* that, too much: cause people *aren't* mediocre, mostly: Brilliant. Tragic, in pain, full of joy and revelry, They hurt, play, f--- around, commit shining acts of heroism and simple gentleness, they're colossally-stupid, occasionally-nasty, and *freakin' inspired.*

We're not mediocre creatures. We're beautiful. All of us. We aspire, we fail, we try again, *we strive,* and *we are not made for boxes like some illusion of conformity.* And I don't think the 'wired' corporate world wants to deal with that. They want *boxes.* But what if that's not *true?* Never mind our *best.*


I've gotten a lot more cautious in my 'old age,' if not just *cowed,* (Grr.) And I know it's different when other people are involved, especially when you aren't like freaking Bat-girl anymore. There was a time when I figured *someone* had to fly the freak-fag. My sweetie's actually bolder than I am about it, (Which gives me no end of stress, let me tell you,) but I know *exactly* how few people I can take on and expect to go home that night.

And that's OK, you know, but it's also stupid and awful, and if the people writing paychecks would rather make everyone go through dances like they're Ward and June Cleaver, rather than see and be what they've really got, then, well, that's just *stupid.*

There's an opportunity here that people are just missing. There may be need for some illusions, but the ones that really *hurt* us *actually* involve some notions that 'other people' are supposed to be 'happily motoring along' in some conformity which *is not even* what people actually live. Maybe it can't and shouldn't be *everyone,* but someone's got to be honest.



Ever see that old movie 'Pump Up The Volume?' ....It was about pirate radio, but it's the same sort of thing. People in general, just shouldn't have to *hide* anymore. We're so busy *hiding* we don't even really *express* ourselves in ways that *were* done through stupid-seeming dances like fashion and etiquette and propriety, but we *do* get a double-dose of the inhibition, now. and I think that's why there's some acrimony about FB and why even, accordingly, people are just resenting *cameras.* And it's not about the big ones they can see, it's about the ones they know they can't. And the big ones are just the ones they can *see* and that's why the glares. It's not really *about* that, though. I'm halfway to shooting Graflex to get the shots I want, here. (Past time to put a hood on this Yashicamat, at least.) People *know* their boundaries are pretty violated, what they *don't* get is. A sense it's not really a surveillance machine. Judging them on every little thing.