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06-11-2011, 10:39 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by napawino Quote
That's some silly stuff. Daisies are never meant to be private. In any way. The rest of what you said doesn't make any sense to me.
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....Your seat(s) have not been assigned online at this time. Please call 1-800-432-1359 for assistance....
That is a portion of an email recently sent to me and I do not want you to know it.

How can you not know it having read it?

The Sarah Palin emails are published - should we all pretend they are not?

06-11-2011, 10:46 PM   #17
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That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not they should be public in the first place.
06-11-2011, 11:04 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by napawino Quote
That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not they should be public in the first place.
I agree.

But once published they are free game.
06-11-2011, 11:14 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
I agree.

But once published they are free game.

Agreed.

06-12-2011, 12:15 AM   #20
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Corporations and governments are held accountable for the correspondence they generate. Our company accepts an email and then passes a copy through (or out) to your Outlook client on a desktop. You delete it....and it doesn't delete the original. This is done for legal reasons and anyone can access it for legal reasons.

Government officials are the same and while they can "ctrl delete" there copy of their email so it doesn't go into their trash and "should" get deleted, it's only a copy.

Why should Palin be given immunity from this? Why should government/public email be made "personal or private"?

Last edited by SteveM; 06-12-2011 at 08:19 AM.
06-12-2011, 05:09 AM   #21
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I understand that it was the State of Alaska that released these emails. Honestly, looking at the daisy was a better analogy than intercepting the U.S. mail when it comes to emails sent on government business. Just about every governmental entity in the country is covered by some kind of public records law. There is no privacy on government computers any more than government files. BTW, what amazed me most from the Wikileaks episode was how little awareness participants seem to have that they are creating a "written" record which could go public.

Before email, we used letters and the U.S. mail if we sent something that would leave a record. However, the office of my employer always made me keep a correspondence file of everything I wrote. That file was their property to keep or release as they saw fit. My understanding of what has happened here is that Palin's former employer, the State of Alaska, is releasing records that are their property.
06-12-2011, 05:19 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by napawino Quote
You can't wiretap without a court order. I see no difference. What people say in private communications should remain private. The fact that it is Palin has the Democrats foaming at the mouth in anticipation of something "juicy". It's rather pathetic.
Every computer owned by a government entity (from federal all the way down to local) is supposed to have a login agreement that states that the system is subject to monitoring and that the user has NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY.

Furthermore, anything she wrote in an e-mail using a government computer, even if she used that computer to login and use her private e-mail account, is "potentially" a public record. Alsaka simply released public records that they collected and monitored in a perfectly legal manner.

So given that they were legally collected and since they comprise public records, the public has a completely reasonable right to examine them.

Mike

06-12-2011, 05:36 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I understand that it was the State of Alaska that released these emails. Honestly, looking at the daisy was a better analogy than intercepting the U.S. mail when it comes to emails sent on government business. Just about every governmental entity in the country is covered by some kind of public records law. There is no privacy on government computers any more than government files. BTW, what amazed me most from the Wikileaks episode was how little awareness participants seem to have that they are creating a "written" record which could go public.

Before email, we used letters and the U.S. mail if we sent something that would leave a record. However, the office of my employer always made me keep a correspondence file of everything I wrote. That file was their property to keep or release as they saw fit. My understanding of what has happened here is that Palin's former employer, the State of Alaska, is releasing records that are their property.
Gene, without question everything you say is correct and I personally was well aware of this. Clearly they had every legal right to publish the emails.

My point would be WHY would they do this - other than for some possible, negative political reasons.

This is not a normal event!

As I said previously, how many of us could withstand the publishing of our whole career of communications and then giving of them to the media for dirt collection!

Surely, because you CAN do it doesn't mean that you MUST do it?
06-12-2011, 06:02 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevewig Quote
Gene, without question everything you say is correct and I personally was well aware of this. Clearly they had every legal right to publish the emails.

My point would be WHY would they do this - other than for some possible, negative political reasons.

This is not a normal event!

As I said previously, how many of us could withstand the publishing of our whole career of communications and then giving of them to the media for dirt collection!

Surely, because you CAN do it doesn't mean that you MUST do it?
I have no particular desire to read Palin's emails. However, publishing the emails contained in public records is not as uncommon as you might be assuming. When someone runs for office both her aides and opponents often go though their correspondence while in office looking for problems( and successes). It is part of public life and has been so since the country was founded.

the ease of email, like digital photography, had made us much sloppier about the number of things we record. The volume of letters examined in prior years was probably less, but the concept was the same.
06-12-2011, 06:16 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I have no particular desire to read Palin's emails. However, publishing the emails contained in public records is not as uncommon as you might be assuming. When someone runs for office both her aides and opponents often go though their correspondence while in office looking for problems( and successes). It is part of public life and has been so since the country was founded.

the ease of email, like digital photography, had made us much sloppier about the number of things we record. The volume of letters examined in prior years was probably less, but the concept was the same.
OK - but where are the official career emails of Mike Huckabee or Obama for instance?

If these have similarly been, or will be, published then I have no argument or point to make!

(Sorry for flogging a dead horse here!)
06-12-2011, 07:35 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevewig Quote
OK - but where are the official career emails of Mike Huckabee or Obama for instance?

If these have similarly been, or will be, published then I have no argument or point to make!

(Sorry for flogging a dead horse here!)
Don't know about Huckabee, but it took exactly 10 seconds to find this. All the president's emails: Sasha Obama; Robert Gates; the White House staff | World news | The Guardian and then this. http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/06/10/why-haven-t-we-se...s-e-mails.aspx
06-12-2011, 12:09 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevewig Quote
Gene, without question everything you say is correct and I personally was well aware of this. Clearly they had every legal right to publish the emails.

My point would be WHY would they do this - other than for some possible, negative political reasons.

This is not a normal event!

As I said previously, how many of us could withstand the publishing of our whole career of communications and then giving of them to the media for dirt collection!

Surely, because you CAN do it doesn't mean that you MUST do it?
Steve,

The state of Alaska is not publishing the e-mails. They were made available to the NY Times and other media organizations under various "Freedom of Information Act" (FOIA) requests. These requests were made during and shortly after the 2008 presidential campaign.

As for the average person's emails being published. Well, the average person is not a candidate for President or Vice President. The average person is not a sitting governor who quits her job 2 years early. The average person does not willingly surrender their right to privacy by using government computer systems and consenting that any communications or use of that system may be monitored.

Finally, the state of Alaska is legally required to reply to the FOIA request and to provide all materials which cannot be excluded under a very narrow set of conditions (attorney/client, executive privilege, classification, etc).

Mike
06-12-2011, 12:32 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
........... What is, is.
Not necessarily. As Bill Clinton testified to the Grand Jury: "It depends on what the meaning of the word "is", is........."
06-12-2011, 12:34 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Steve,

The state of Alaska is not publishing the e-mails. They were made available to the NY Times and other media organizations under various "Freedom of Information Act" (FOIA) requests. These requests were made during and shortly after the 2008 presidential campaign.

As for the average person's emails being published. Well, the average person is not a candidate for President or Vice President. The average person is not a sitting governor who quits her job 2 years early. The average person does not willingly surrender their right to privacy by using government computer systems and consenting that any communications or use of that system may be monitored.

Finally, the state of Alaska is legally required to reply to the FOIA request and to provide all materials which cannot be excluded under a very narrow set of conditions (attorney/client, executive privilege, classification, etc).

Mike
OK Mike (and Gene) - I finally "get it" - thanks for the explanation and rational!
06-12-2011, 06:30 PM   #30
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When you work for the people your conversations are subject, for the most part, to open records acts in that state. Msrs. Palin knew and knows that. Every government employee either knows that or should know that. In the USA you can go to any government agency, file an open records act request and get email, and many other things. There are tons of of things you can get by filing a request. Some will be redacted and some will not.
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