[mikemike]

Wow, this is just amazing and unfortunately typical of our federal government...

It tells how, between 2009 and this year, the ATF instructed agents to turn a blind eye to hundreds of AK-47 assault rifles, sniper rifles, and revolvers purchased from gunshops in Phoenix and en route to Mexico.

Fast and Furious revolved around so-called "straw" purchases of firearms, in which a buyer purchase military-grade hardware from a gun-store with the intention of illegally passing it to a criminal third party. ATF agents who track suspected straw purchases typically run intensive surveillance operations allowing them to arrest suspects and recover the guns. During the Fast and Furious operation they were instructed to simply let the weapons disappear.

John Dodson, a special agent from Phoenix who eventually blew the whistle on the "flawed" operation, told congressmen his superiors would be "giddy" with delight when "their" guns were found at a crime scene in Mexico, because they believed it "validated" their tactic. With regard to potential loss of life, an ATF boss told him: "if you are going to make an omelette, you need to scramble some eggs."

On 14 December, disaster struck when the US border patrol guard, Brian Terry, was killed during a shootout with suspected illegal aliens on the Arizona border. His killers dropped their rifles to flee faster. Two of the weapons were AK-47s which had been intentionally allowed to walk during Fast and Furious.

Exposed: The secret guns sting that backfired on the US - Americas, World - The Independent

I know Obama has spoken about this issue over and over again and to find out that his administration was actively fanning the flames is just unacceptable. Time will tell how far up this goes, but expect Eric Holder's head to roll for this one. Given that their are deaths attributable to this operation, who knows... maybe the ICC will issue an arrest warrant for the mastermind.

[GeneV]

Care to explain why this is "typical" or is that another poorly chosen description, like "socialist?"

[jeffkrol]

You Tube

You Tube

What would you expect from the Corporate states of America.........

[mikemike]

What would you expect from the Corporate states of America.........

What are you saying, that "you don't have as much fun up in Wisconsin as we do in Louisiana?"

That sounded like a John Breaux story... It sound like Wisconsin would be happy to have Bobby Jindal instead of Scott Walker. Bobby is up for re-election this year and he has done such a good job that no democrat is even challenging him.

That was an interesting speech and I like Russ Feingold and have tremendous respect for him because he is one of the few politicians with actual character and morals; it was disappointing to see him lose.

I don't really see what this has to do with the US BATFE supporting the drug cartels in what is virtually a Mexican civil war unless you are implying that the support was bought by campaign contributions from the cartels. I doubt thats what you were implying though.

I say this is typical because it is typical of US foreign policy to create bigger and scarier frankenstien monsters that destroy not only foreign countries but eventually come to attack us.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, Pakistan, and more are problems which have been agitated and festered by our foreign policy.

At this rate, my children will be drafted to occupy Mexico after the drug cartels take over and the US goes in to liberate it.

[jeffkrol]

Business is business.. someone makes guns.. someone sells guns...

It tells how, between 2009 and this year, the ATF instructed agents to turn a blind eye to hundreds of AK-47 assault rifles, sniper rifles, and revolvers purchased from gunshops in Phoenix

[Parallax]

Business is business.. someone makes guns.. someone sells guns...

This isn't about the lawful making, selling, and purchasing of guns. It's about a government agency suffering, encouraging, and even facilitating the illegal purchasing and distribution of guns. Even more ironic is that it was the very agency that is supposed o prevent that from happening.

[mikemike]

This isn't about the lawful making, selling, and purchasing of guns. It's about a government agency suffering, encouraging, and even facilitating the illegal purchasing and distribution of guns. Even more ironic is that it was the very agency that is supposed o prevent that from happening.

Everyone involved on the ground knew how incredibly stupid and reckless this was too. It just took a while before someone shouted enough and exposed this. Gun dealers don't benefit from a straw purchaser who buys a gun and is able to get away with it any more than they do a straw purchaser who gets arrested as they walk out the store. The gun is sold and the law enforcement agencies had the choice to either arrest a criminal and seize the gun as evidence or let the criminal pass the gun along to be used in an even more heinous crime. In this case they chose the latter for 2 years. The only ones who benefited from this operation were the drug cartels.

"Both line agents and gun dealers who co-operated with the ATF repeatedly expressed concerns", about the operation, the report says. "But ATF supervisors did not heed those warnings. Instead, they told agents to follow orders because this was sanctioned from above."

[Parallax]

An ATF agent was murdered with one of the guns.
If a dealer (outside of this operation) knowingly made an illegal sale, and someone were killed with the weapon, he could conceivably be charged with complicity in the crime, and certainly be sued in civil court.
Seems to me BATFE should be criminally and civilly liable in this case.
Talk about going rogue.

[BillM]

Serious subject,requires serious thought by every American citizen.Towards that end...


FBI — Homepage

[jeffkrol]

Like arms for hostages, or more recently:
According to the estimation of Susan Wright, a US arms-control expert from the University of Michigan, publication of this information would be "especially embarassing for the USA." It would "remind people in the USA of a very dark chapter, which the Bush administration would prefer to forget about." Whether the US had already struck out this information before it made copies for the other 4 permanent Council members continues to be unclear.

Author: Andreas Zumach
Original in German at - taz.de
Translator: Anu de Monterice


The full list of arms suppliers to Iraq, as published by the taz on 12/19/02, can be found at - taz.de

Legend used in this list:

A = nuclear program,
B = bioweapons program,
C = chemical weapons program,
R = rocket program,
K = conventional weapons, military logistics, supplies at the Iraqi Defense Ministry and the building of military plants.

After the list of US firms are these remarks: "In addition to these 24 companies home-based in the USA are 50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises which conducted their arms business with Iraq from within the US. Also designated as suppliers for Iraq's arms programs (A, B, C & R) are the US Ministries of Defense, Energy, Trade and Agriculture as well as the Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories." (Anu's translation)


US CORPORATIONS

1 Honeywell (R, K)

2 Spectra Physics (K)

3 Semetex (R)

4 TI Coating (A, K)

5 Unisys (A, K)

6 Sperry Corp. (R, K)

7 Tektronix (R, A)

8 Rockwell (K)

9 Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)

10 Finnigan-MAT-US (A)

11 Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K)

12 Dupont (A)

13 Eastman Kodak (R)

14 American Type Culture Collection (B)

15 Alcolac International (C)

16 Consarc (A)

17 Carl Zeiss - U.S (K)

18 Cerberus (LTD) (A)

19 Electronic Associates (R)

20 International Computer Systems (A, R, K)

21 Bechtel (K)

22 EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R)

23 Canberra Industries Inc. (A)

24 Axel Electronics Inc. (A)
Full List Of US Weapons Suppliers To Iraq

I'm AMAZED that we can sell "legal" arms to kill tens of thousands yet this is "troublesome"

Maybe to make myself clear.. Legal (semi-legal, paper legal, amoral or immoral) or illegal arm sales are all "serious business" and much of the time will eventually bite us.. so what's your point?

While President Ronald Reagan was a supporter of the Contra cause,[7] no conclusive evidence has been found showing that he authorized the diversion of the money raised by the Iranian arms sales to the Contras.[3][4][8] Handwritten notes taken by Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger indicate that Reagan was aware of potential hostages transfers with Iran, as well as the sale of Hawk and TOW missiles to what he was told were "moderate elements" within that country.[9] Oliver North, one of the central figures in the affair, wrote in a book that "Ronald Reagan knew of and approved a great deal of what went on with both the Iranian initiative and private efforts on behalf of the contras and he received regular, detailed briefings on both." Mr. North also writes: "I have no doubt that he was told about the use of residuals for the Contras, and that he approved it. Enthusiastically."[10] North's account is difficult to verify because of the secrecy that still surrounds the scandal.

After the weapon sales were revealed in November 1986, Reagan appeared on national television and stated that the weapons transfers had indeed occurred, but that the United States did not trade arms for hostages.[11] To this day, it is unclear exactly what Reagan knew and when, and whether the arms sales were motivated by his desire to save the U.S. hostages. Notes taken December 7, 1985, by Defense Secretary Weinberger record that Reagan said that "he could answer charges of illegality but he couldn't answer charge [sic] that 'big strong President Reagan passed up a chance to free hostages.'"[9] The investigation was impeded when large volumes of documents relating to the scandal were destroyed or withheld from investigators by Reagan administration officials.

justice and common sense.. your in the wrong country..............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

[shiner]

Obama admin faced with another potentially serious scandal? What to do? Hmm, lets just point at the Bush admin- that'll work.

[jeffkrol]

The new disclosures included violations noted in 2009. The documents note that TGSCOM sold a gun to someone without following a required waiting period; sold a gun to someone who did not answer all required background questions; failed to maintain complete records of transactions; failed to collect required information from buyers; and failed to record the disposition of 14 weapons.

None of the gun buyers are identified by name in the reports.

The inspection results were enough to revoke TGSCOM's federal license, but the inspector opted for lesser enforcement measures.

"Though violations disclosed and previous inspection history warrant revocation, a report of violations only and a recall inspection is recommended," the inspector wrote in the March 2009 report.

Five months later, a gunman who had done business with TGSCOM shot and killed three women at a Pittsburgh health club and wounded nine others before fatally shooting himself.

It was the third time that the Green Bay gun dealership was linked to a mass shooting, following similar incidents on college campuses in Virginia and Illinois.

ATF report cites violations by TGSCOM Inc. | Green Bay Press Gazette | greenbaypressgazette.com
POINT is there are "scandals" EVERYWHERE..

We sell guns to bad people.. the sky is blue... as I said, what's your point.

NOW, after decades of your cr@p you decide to go all MORAL on us???????

Does that explain it in simple enough terms?????????

[GeneV]

Our arms have been getting to the wrong people since we have been making and selling them. I suppose that part is typical.