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06-24-2011, 02:54 AM   #1
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Pulitzer Prize winning Journalist admits to being an Illegal Immigrant

Surprising that no one has brought this up yet...

My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant - Jose Antonio Vargas - NY Times Magazine

06-24-2011, 04:11 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Amazing article! hope he's alright!
06-24-2011, 04:52 AM   #3
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Sooo, I take it he only got that Pulitzer because he was cheaper than a real American? Right? Right?
06-24-2011, 04:52 AM   #4
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Considering that he has committed multiple felonies, not the least of which was lying to the Secret Service (providing fake identification documents) in order to get into the White House, the least that should happen to him is a free return flight to the Philippines. Frankly though, he could face prison time first, depending on how hardball they want to play.

Mike

06-24-2011, 06:09 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Sooo, I take it he only got that Pulitzer because he was cheaper than a real American? Right? Right?
Actually Lithos... Vargas did not "win a Pulitzer" individually. He was a member of a team of eight who collectively won the prize. At least seven "real Americans" contributed.

Mike

EDIT: The prize was awarded to The WP for a total of 9 individual articles, on which 11 journalists were credited. Vargas was credited on only 2 of those 9 articles (and as the sole author on only one).

The 2008 Pulitzer Prize Winners - Breaking News Reporting

Last edited by MRRiley; 06-24-2011 at 08:38 AM. Reason: correction and added source
06-24-2011, 06:17 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Considering that he has committed multiple felonies, not the least of which was lying to the Secret Service (providing fake identification documents) in order to get into the White House, the least that should happen to him is a free return flight to the Philippines. Frankly though, he could face prison time first, depending on how hardball they want to play.

Mike
By "should happen" do you mean

"if he is prosecuted, the law states that the penalties are ..."

or

"I think that these things are the correct response ..."

What would you have done in his shoes, when you realised at 16 that you had been illegally in a country you had been calling home for 4 years, and had no real means or desire to return 'home'?
06-24-2011, 06:18 AM   #7
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Ah the crime of being born in the wrong country!

06-24-2011, 06:25 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Actually Lithos... Vargas did not "win a Pulitzer" individually. He was a member of a team of eight who collectively won the prize. At least seven "real Americans" contributed.

Mike
Mike - seven ALLEDGEDLY "real Americans" - we haven't seen their papers, have we?
06-24-2011, 06:29 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
Mike - seven ALLEDGEDLY "real Americans" - we haven't seen their papers, have we?
This is true. I wonder which tribes they were from?
06-24-2011, 06:52 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
By "should happen" do you mean

"if he is prosecuted, the law states that the penalties are ..."

or

"I think that these things are the correct response ..."

What would you have done in his shoes, when you realised at 16 that you had been illegally in a country you had been calling home for 4 years, and had no real means or desire to return 'home'?
What I may or may not have done is irrelevant... IF I had done as Vargas did, I would be just as guilty. And I would deserve the sanctions defined by the law. So does Vargas, regardless of his ability to write...

By actively seeking out and obtaining fake documents, by willingly altering real official government documents to hide his status and using those documents to work in this country he has committed several felonies. He has conspired with "naive" citizens to either hide his status or to gain false documents making them guilty of felonies as well. These crimes make him vulnerable to imprisonment under multiple statutes. His co-conspirators are vulnerable now as well.

He has also lied to just about every employer he has ever had and placed them in peril of sanctions for employing him. He has lied to coworkers and acquaintances throughout all of his adult life. Those he has not lied to, he has suborned. He has in short, proven himself to be of questionable character who is unable to meet the requirement under current U.S. immigration policy that requires the applicant to "Be a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during all relevant periods under the law"

So basically, due to his status as a, now confessed, criminal and his habitual lying about his true identity, he has rendered himself unqualified under current immigration laws to either lawfully immigrate to this country or to eventually become a citizen. Too bad, so sad... It's a privilege to come here... not a right...


QuoteOriginally posted by ihasa Quote
Ah the crime of being born in the wrong country!
As for the issue of "the crime of being born in the wrong country." Vargas' crime was not being born Filipino, it was staying here and using false identifications after he discovered his own status. It may be difficult but it is not impossible to immigrate to the United States legally. In fact it is probably easier to do so here than it is in almost any other country... From Wikipedia...

QuoteQuote:
As of 2006, the United States accepts more legal immigrants as permanent residents than all other countries in the world combined.[1] Since the removal of ethnic quotas in immigration in 1965,[2] the number of first- generation immigrants living in the United States has quadrupled,[3] from 9.6 million in 1970 to about 38 million in 2007.[4] 1,046,539 persons were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 2008. The leading emigrating countries to the United States were Mexico, India, the Philippines, and China.[5]
Funny thing is... If he had turned himself in and willingly submitted to deportation procedures, he would have almost certainly been let back in as he would have proven his "good moral character."

Just for the record... I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with IMMIGRANTS as long as they follow the legal and accessible process to enter this country. Illegal immigrants on the other hand have proven their disdain for our laws so I cannot in good conscious trust them to honor any other laws or standards of a law-abiding society.

Mike

Last edited by MRRiley; 06-24-2011 at 07:04 AM.
06-24-2011, 06:56 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
Mike - seven ALLEDGEDLY "real Americans" - we haven't seen their papers, have we?
Very true... LOL I imagine the Washington Post is going to be making very sure of the citizenship or legality of their entire staff after this...

QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
This is true. I wonder which tribes they were from?
Was this "apparently" racist commentary really needed?

Mike
06-24-2011, 07:06 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
What I may or may not have done is irrelevant... IF I had done them I would be just as guilty. And I would deserve the sanctions defined by the law. So does Vargas, regardless of his ability to write...
My question was designed to get you to think about whether or not the law is correct. Laws are not set in stone - we make them, we change them, we choose whether or not to uphold them. I believe it is illegal to eat an orange in the bath in California, and illegal to look at moose from an aeroplane in Alaska - the law is not always sensible.

If no law existed about this issue, would you make one, and what would it say?


QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
He has also lied to just about every employer he has ever had and placed them in peril of sanctions for employing him. He has lied to coworkers and acquaintances throughout all of his adult life. He has in short, proven himself to be of questionable character who is unable to meet the requirement under current U.S. immigration policy that requires the applicant to "Be a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during all relevant periods under the law"
So how would you have played the cards, if you were dealt them? You're 16. You find out you're illegally in a country, and your family have gone to great expense and risk to get you there - no mother sends her child away willingly. Do you go back to a place you don't really know, and where your opportunities are few, against your families wishes? Or do you believe those who are older than you who tell you it'll be ok?

What would you do? You, presumably, who considers himself be of 'good moral character' - certainly good enough to be judging another without having walked as much as an inch in his shoes? You'd just ask for the money to go home and break the hearts of your family, would you? Because remember you can't work for the money to go home.

QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
It's a privilege to come here... not a right...
Well, like all countries yours is one run by the descendants of the people who won the last war for it I suppose. Whether that gives those people a 'right' to tell others where they can live is a bigger question.
06-24-2011, 07:16 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
This is true. I wonder which tribes they were from?
QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Was this "apparently" racist commentary really needed?

Mike
What's apparently racist about it? I am trying to suggest that the idea of who is 'American' is rather fluid. At one time it meant something entirely different.

How 'American' am I? My great grandfather emigrated to Chicago, where my grandmother was born and lived until she was nine, when the whole family came back to England. She never left these shores again, so never had a passport in her own name. Her birth certificate was American though. Was she American? She lived 9 years in Chicago, and 80 years in England. I've never been out of Europe, but she was my grandmother.

Nationality is fluid. That was my point.

Last edited by Northern Soul; 06-24-2011 at 07:16 AM. Reason: spelling / typing
06-24-2011, 08:09 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
My question was designed to get you to think about whether or not the law is correct. Laws are not set in stone - we make them, we change them, we choose whether or not to uphold them. I believe it is illegal to eat an orange in the bath in California, and illegal to look at moose from an aeroplane in Alaska - the law is not always sensible.
I'm as appalled by certain laws as anyone might be. For those laws, I take part in the legal process to get them changed. I happen to believe that the laws regarding immigration are correct and should be applied/upheld. In many ways, the problem we are having right now in this country, is that those laws are not being upheld or applied as specified. Politicians and powerful interests subvert them at their whim which creates far more problems for the people trying to get into this country legally than if the system was enforced and operated as it was intended.

No modern country can allow people to cross their borders without any restrictions or standards. Your country certainly does not. Mexico, for example, certainly does not! People entering Mexico illegally are very harshly treated and are subject to extreme prison sentences if they are caught.

QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
If no law existed about this issue, would you make one, and what would it say?
I would make it simple... You have to ask properly to come here and if you are caught here without permission you are immediately placed on a means of transport within 3 days to return to your country of origin.

QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
So how would you have played the cards, if you were dealt them? You're 16. You find out you're illegally in a country, and your family have gone to great expense and risk to get you there - no mother sends her child away willingly. Do you go back to a place you don't really know, and where your opportunities are few, against your families wishes? Or do you believe those who are older than you who tell you it'll be ok?
I don't know... but regardless, again, staying and falsifying documents is ILLEGAL. My situation and hardships or my mommy's love doesn't change that.

QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
What would you do? You, presumably, who considers himself be of 'good moral character' - certainly good enough to be judging another without having walked as much as an inch in his shoes? You'd just ask for the money to go home and break the hearts of your family, would you? Because remember you can't work for the money to go home.
I do not have to walk "an inch" in a criminal's shoes to know that the behavior is WRONG! No person of "good moral character" does! And my government will put you on the plane for free... doesn't cost you a dime to go back home.

QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
Well, like all countries yours is one run by the descendants of the people who won the last war for it I suppose. Whether that gives those people a 'right' to tell others where they can live is a bigger question.
Yeah, sorta like your own country.. What would England do if hundreds of thousands of Frenchmen decided to sneak into Wales without asking properly?

QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
What's apparently racist about it? I am trying to suggest that the idea of who is 'American' is rather fluid. At one time it meant something entirely different.
The term "tribe" is generally loaded with a "black African" or "American Indian" connotation in this country and is generally interpreted as a racial slur...

QuoteOriginally posted by Northern Soul Quote
How 'American' am I? My great grandfather emigrated to Chicago, where my grandmother was born and lived until she was nine, when the whole family came back to England. She never left these shores again, so never had a passport in her own name. Her birth certificate was American though. Was she American? She lived 9 years in Chicago, and 80 years in England. I've never been out of Europe, but she was my grandmother.

Nationality is fluid. That was my point.
She was American by birth and British by choice. Unless she renounced her American citizenship she could have easily come back to the United States. Her child, your parent, could have easily applied for American citizenship if she had not renounced and become a British citizen. If neither of your parents held American citizenship, you are not American, you are British. It''s that simple.

Nationality is indeed fluid... insofar as one can renounce citizenship of one country to gain citizenship in another (I'm not considering those countries which allow people to maintain multiple citizenships). However, there is a process to be followed, generally negotiated or recognized between the countries involved that transfers the immigrant's legal rights and obligations. Illegal immigration bypasses those conventions and factually leaves the illegal immigrant in a vary precarious position in both countries. They MAY have no or little consular or ambassadorial protection from their parent country and have no legal standing in the country that they have entered illegally.

Mike

Last edited by MRRiley; 06-24-2011 at 08:15 AM.
06-24-2011, 08:20 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by ihasa Quote
Ah the crime of being born in the wrong country!
Just curious how does your nation deal with people that are discovered to be there under false documentation?
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