[Edvinas]

First of all I want to excuse for my English, some of my thoughts could be not reall clear as I can't freely express myself in English.

And exactly how would you be harmed if it did?

That's a huge oversimplification of the problem.

Analogy. Photographing child nude and posting those pictures on pedophile network doesn't do any harm neither to child nor to his parents. Does that mean it is OK to allow this kind of activity?

Gay marriage usually is just the first step. When country allows gay marriage it is only a matter of time when gay lobists push laws allowing gay couples to adopt children. While I don't really care about gay marriage (except antipathy), children adoption by gay couples are absolutely not ok with me. Therefore I do not want to make that first step towards children adoption by gay couples.

[GeneV]

First of all I want to excuse for my English, some of my thoughts could be not reall clear as I can't freely express myself in English.



That's a huge oversimplification of the problem.

Analogy. Photographing child nude and posting those pictures on pedophile network doesn't do any harm neither to child nor to his parents. Does that mean it is OK to allow this kind of activity?

Gay marriage usually is just the first step. When country allows gay marriage it is only a matter of time when gay lobists push laws allowing gay couples to adopt children. While I don't really care about gay marriage (except antipathy), children adoption by gay couples are absolutely not ok with me. Therefore I do not want to make that first step towards children adoption by gay couples.

Gay persons can already be natural mothers or fathers and have custody of their children, with a willing partner. Virtually every state in the U.S. allows gay adoption to some extent. How is this harmful to a child? (Child pornography--exploiting a child for sex for profit-- is not even in the same moral universe with two consenting and loving adults who may marry and adopt a child)

Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Finland and all of the Scandinavian countries allow one or both same-sex partners to adopt. I'm curious, because Lithuania seems to stand alone in your area of the world as a country which does not. It seems that rights for gays in Lithuania have largely come with pressure from the EU. What is the source of the attitude of your country toward gay people? Is it religion? culture?

[Edvinas]

(Child pornography--exploiting a child for sex for profit-- is not even in the same moral universe with two consenting and loving adults who may marry and adopt a child)

Or who may marry to adopt and then to sexually exploit adopted child.

BTW, my analogy was to point out that not everything that does not do direct harm should be allowed.

Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Finland and all of the Scandinavian countries allow one or both same-sex partners to adopt. I'm curious, because Lithuania seems to stand alone in your area of the world as a country which does not. It seems that rights for gays in Lithuania have largely come with pressure from the EU. What is the source of the attitude of your country toward gay people? Is it religion? culture?

What are your sources? Wikipedia says that gay adoption isn't allowed neither in Baltic states, nor in Poland.

And you're right about pressure from EU. However EU can push laws, but not make up people minds... Gay marriage and especially children adoption by gays is not acceptable for most of us. Maybe it will change, however my generation is definitely against it. Probably traditions and cultural factors. After all, nature made clear - family relationship is created to born and grow children and children can be born only between man and woman...
It is definitely not a religion, I consider myself atheist as do many of my friens and they all are definitely not pro-gay type of people.

[redrockcoulee]

Or who may marry to adopt and then to sexually exploit adopted child.

BTW, my analogy was to point out that not everything that does not do direct harm should be allowed.



What are your sources? Wikipedia says that gay adoption isn't allowed neither in Baltic states, nor in Poland.

And you're right about pressure from EU. However EU can push laws, but not make up people minds... Gay marriage and especially children adoption by gays is not acceptable for most of us. Maybe it will change, however my generation is definitely against it. Probably traditions and cultural factors. After all, nature made clear - family relationship is created to born and grow children and children can be born only between man and woman...
It is definitely not a religion, I consider myself atheist as do many of my friens and they all are definitely not pro-gay type of people.

Your concerns would be valid if and only if first that homosexuals are more inclined to abuse children than are hetrosexuals and two if it was a common enough occurance that it did pose a threat to society. For example if the number of same sex couples who adopt a child and abuse it was one in five than you have a good point but what if it is only 1 in one million. Do 999 999 couples get denied to prevent an abuse. We certainly would not do that for other segments of society.

As to marriage is to raise a family as a reason to not allow same sex marriages then are you willing to ban marriages between seniors who are beyond child bearing age? Banning same sex marriages because it will not result in children will not cause more kids to be borne hence the ban would acheive nothing.

What do you mean not pro gay? you do not want them to be able to marry but do you want them to have other rights or not? For it to be illegal to be gay? When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s most people that I knew were certainly against gay people. Almost all small towns had 'sisters' living together who it turned out were not related. That is no longer the case as I do believe homosexuals are much more accepted in our society. Not by all but at least tolerated by most. Child abuse is not regardless of same sex or not.

As far as nature goes there are many examples of same sex acts in nature. I hope you are not inferring that homosexuals should marry people of the opposite sex so that they raise children?

[GeneV]

Or who may marry to adopt and then to sexually exploit adopted child.

BTW, my analogy was to point out that not everything that does not do direct harm should be allowed.



What are your sources? Wikipedia says that gay adoption isn't allowed neither in Baltic states, nor in Poland.

And you're right about pressure from EU. However EU can push laws, but not make up people minds... Gay marriage and especially children adoption by gays is not acceptable for most of us. Maybe it will change, however my generation is definitely against it. Probably traditions and cultural factors. After all, nature made clear - family relationship is created to born and grow children and children can be born only between man and woman...
It is definitely not a religion, I consider myself atheist as do many of my friens and they all are definitely not pro-gay type of people.

Please reread the table in the Wiki article. LGBT adoption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Wikipedia states that a gay person may adopt in all of the countries I listed, and that a gay couple may adopt in some form in many of them. According to Wikipedia, among the countries in that area, only in Lithuania is even an LGBT individual prohibited from adopting. It is one of the least friendly countries to gay rights. LGBT rights in Lithuania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nature includes all kinds of relationships, but marriage is not the rule in nature. More often than not, the young of mammals are raised by single mothers, and marriage among species other than humans is the exception. I can't see nature as an example.

BTW, I was raised in Texas, where religious leaders are strongly against gay marriage. As a child I just accepted that and never thought much about this issue until my wife and I came here and over the past decades have made friends with a number of gay couples, some of whom have been married in Canada and other jurisdictions. They are more loving and committed than many of our other friends. I have a great deal of trouble understanding why they would not be fit to care for children.

[deadwolfbones]

Rudy Giuliani Breaks Vow To Perform NY Wedding For Gay Couple Who Once Gave Him Shelter

Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani famously crashed at a gay couple's luxurious midtown Manhattan apartment when his own marriage fell apart in 2001--and then skipped out on the couple's Connecticut nuptials in 2009, even though he'd RSVP'd "Yes".

It was a diss many saw in direct relation to Giuliani's gay marriage opposition. The moderately conservative former mayor has publicly been in favor or civil unions, but never gay marriage.

And today the New York Post reports Giuliani seems to have reneged on an offer he made to the friendly couple, Howard Koeppel and Mark Hsiao, to preside over their New York vows if same-sex marriage were ever legalized in the state-- which, of course, it was last Friday. One of the perks of being a former Mayor of New York City is that you can still legally perform weddings even if you're no longer in office. (Another perk -- getting to wear a tuxedo every day, no matter what).

[Nesster]

why would anyone deny, say, these two the right to get married?

[magkelly]

I've known a lot of parents, straight, gay and otherwise, and I can tell you from knowing them that the gays were all excellent parents, the straights not nearly so much. In any case there are too many kids out there who need homes and if a gay couple is willing to adopt and raise those kids than I am all for it.

One thing about the gay couples they tend to adopt older kids, minorities, kids with disabilities more often than straights do. Some of them do want babies, but most of them are just happy to be able to legally raise a child, period. They're less likely to be prejudiced against adopting the kids who need to be adopted most though and for that alone I'd say yes, let them.

Just because a kid is raised by two gay people doesn't mean he or she will grow up gay, but if a kid is going to be gay anyway? Then who better to be raising said kid than someone who understands what it is to be gay in this world? If the kid is straight then growing up with gay parents just may make it more tolerant towards others who are different. That's hardly a bad thing either.

Studies have shown that most kids raised by gay parents are pretty well adjusted actually. It doesn't seem to make a major difference whether or not both parents are gay or not so long as there is someone in the family circle who is of the opposite gender to provide an example. That person can be an relative, a friend, whatever. It doesn't have to be a parent and there are many single people out there, straight, who are in the same boat.

The way I see it you find your "family" where you can. Family is not always about sharing blood. It's about sharing love too and if people truly love and support each other? They can be a good family no matter what anyone else thinks about it. I'm actually closer in some ways to one of my friends than I am to my own blood brothers. He is family to me and has been for a decade and more and it's to him I go when I need the advice of one. He is my little brother even if we are not technically related and the rest of my bio family knows that and treats him as one. My folks have practically adopted him and his family has practically adopted me. No one really cares who actually had who...

[Nesster]

And from the other side of the divide - if one of my children was gay, I would still want them the same opportunities and rights - and chance for a stable, official relationship - as if they weren't gay. Not to mention all the wedding presents

And from yet another side - anecdotally and from experience, growing up with a closeted gay in a heterosexual marriage isn't exactly a bed of roses. Plus, while this is no doubt a current media obsession, I'm not sure growing up as a girl with a non-blood dad is the safest thing in the world.