[magkelly]

When I was living in NYC a young girl got killed on a city street (in front of our apt pretty much) by being thrown off a motorcycle at a speed that was determined to be less than 25mph. She and her guy were not wearing helmets. They hit something on the road and she few off the bike and hit her head, crushed it. It wasn't the law back then wearing helmets. If you still want to take that risk, fine. But I wouldn't advise it. Not after seeing that. You don't have to be going 75MPH on a highway to lose your life riding. I personally wouldn't. I love motorcycles myself, but there is no way I'd get onto one without a helmet after that, no way....

[MRRiley]

As for the law, I have always supported freedom of choice as far as helmets are concerned. There are some valid issues such as restricted vision, hearing, etc with helmets. One scary incident was a wasp that had got inside my fullface helmet from underneath while on a trip. I got a couple of stings before pulling off the road and getting the helmet off. I could blame the helmet and stop wearing it but that's a rare event and I imagine that the helmet has saved me from more stings than I count.

I've done the "bee in the bonnet" dance before... It's NOOOO FUN! Glad you made it thru.

Some good points here, Mike. I will say that you should perhaps give helmets a little more credit, particularly in terms of high-speed crashes. Here is Shinya Nakano crashing at 200mph and surviving:

YouTube - ‪Shinya Nakano Mugello 2004 Accident at 330Km/h‬‏

To your point, Nakana's head did not touch the pavement first, but you will see that the back of his helmet struck soo thereafter, and probably still close to 200mph. So while I agree that the method/direction of impact is important, I believe it is actually more important than speed. Modern motorcycle racetracks - with plenty of runoff area (usually sand traps) are designed to minimize the types of impacts that cause the most damage, i.e., hitting walls or hard surfaces. As they say, it's not the falling off that hurt, it's the coming to a sudden stop (i.e., hitting a wall) that does.
.....

I actually used to race John, way back in the 7os and once got off at over 100mph. So I know how much it hurts, and only attribute my survival to my protective gear and to the fact that it was a mid corner low-side. I actually hit the ground fairly softly and managed to get on my back. I slid across 20 yds of concrete into a grass field. By the time I stopped my helmet had a hole sanded into it and my leathers were worn to a nub but my skull and skin were intact. Today's racing gear allows riders to survice much more severe impacts and abrasions in large part due to extensive hard and soft armor. One factor, which I'm sure you noticed is that, all things considered, Nakano managed to keep his extremities fairly well tucked in and it appears his neck, though bounced around quite a bit was never compressed severely. These guys simply know what to do when they fall. He WAS lucky he'd slowed almost to a stop before reaching that wall though.

When I was living in NYC a young girl got killed on a city street (in front of our apt pretty much) by being thrown off a motorcycle at a speed that was determined to be less than 25mph. She and her guy were not wearing helmets. They hit something on the road and she few off the bike and hit her head, crushed it. It wasn't the law back then wearing helmets. If you still want to take that risk, fine. But I wouldn't advise it. Not after seeing that. You don't have to be going 75MPH on a highway to lose your life riding. I personally wouldn't. I love motorcycles myself, but there is no way I'd get onto one without a helmet after that, no way....

Pretty much what I said in my comments above. But the main thing is, it should be up to each individual to risk his life as he/she sees fit and to take whatever steps he/she thinks prudent and reasonable to mitigate that risk. You have to remember that risk cannot be eliminated... it can only be managed.

Mike

[magkelly]

You know I think it all goes back to Easy Rider and The Wild One, all those iconic screen images of young people on motorcycles breezing down the road with the wind in their hair, free. You know "born to be wild" and all. I think internally that's the image we all want to have of ourselves when riding down the road on a motorcycle. Some people they're just more stuck on it than others, I guess. I don't like the helmet thing myself really. I've been on a Harley with one off. It was nice, while it lasted, but I was just a kid then and I really didn't know much better. The helmet's not nearly as much fun, but if it saves my arse, I'll wear it. Then again you can die from slipping in the bathtub too.... ;P

[RioRico]

If you ride on public roads, which roads are regulated by law, then society (via lawmakers) can reasonably impose requirements for using those roads. Requirements such as training, licensing, insurance -- and safety devices, such as seat restraints (in multi-wheel vehicles) and helmets (on bikes etc).

Should it be a rider's choice? Whether or not covered by insurance? Society (taxpayers) must pick up the medical bills of an uninsured helmetless biker who's in a vegetative coma for decades (to use an extreme example). I suppose the morally pure libertarian stance would be to only ride helmetless when upon unregulated private property, after signing a waiver of medical treatment. You want the risk? Fine. Just don't expect anyone else to pay for your bad judgment. Have your will prepared.

NOTE: I didn't race, but I rode ricer cycles in my younger days, mostly without helmet. Good thing I didn't fall off. I was also a bicycle messenger in San Francisco and have otherwise been on two wheels a lot. I *did* have a nasty bike spill and *did* bounce my head and *did* receive a concussion, which probably didn't do me much good. Later, I worked for an ambulance service near a major desert military base. A large part of the business involved unwrapping grunts on cycles from the trees and phone poles they'd tied themselves around. Those without helmets ALWAYS had head injuries. That's what prompted me to become a helmet-wearer. My opinion now: Riding helmetless is stupid.

[BillM]

Riding helmetless is stupid

+1000

Grew up on them,honda super 90 when I was 8,trail 90 at same time.
kawasaki 400 mx'er competativly,always fully protected.Still,broken bones
stitches,concusions that comes with territory.Got away from the dirt
and bought something american made with V-twin.Watched a person
go underneath a car and burn.Sold everything little bit latter,never looked back.

[MRRiley]

If you ride on public roads, which roads are regulated by law, then society (via lawmakers) can reasonably impose requirements for using those roads. Requirements such as training, licensing, insurance -- and safety devices, such as seat restraints (in multi-wheel vehicles) and helmets (on bikes etc).

Should it be a rider's choice? Whether or not covered by insurance? Society (taxpayers) must pick up the medical bills of an uninsured helmetless biker who's in a vegetative coma for decades (to use an extreme example). I suppose the morally pure libertarian stance would be to only ride helmetless when upon unregulated private property, after signing a waiver of medical treatment. You want the risk? Fine. Just don't expect anyone else to pay for your bad judgment. Have your will prepared.

NOTE: I didn't race, but I rode ricer cycles in my younger days, mostly without helmet. Good thing I didn't fall off. I was also a bicycle messenger in San Francisco and have otherwise been on two wheels a lot. I *did* have a nasty bike spill and *did* bounce my head and *did* receive a concussion, which probably didn't do me much good. Later, I worked for an ambulance service near a major desert military base. A large part of the business involved unwrapping grunts on cycles from the trees and phone poles they'd tied themselves around. Those without helmets ALWAYS had head injuries. That's what prompted me to become a helmet-wearer. My opinion now: Riding helmetless is stupid.

Training, license, insurance... fine! Those are there just as much for the protection of other people on the road as they are for any given rider... or driver for that matter. They serve legitimate societal needs, safety of others and the ability to compensate for liability. Helmet laws and seat belt laws however are an overreach into our personal choice and are primarily driven by insurance companies (which generally drive all of those highway safety studies). As I said before, the insurance companies are free to tell you up front that if you have an accident and die or suffer severe injuries while riding helmetless or driving without your seat belt on, fine. I'm sure they would be more than willing to offer "extended benefits" for a higher premium for those who want to forgo the safety devices.

Now, as the "medical bills of an uninsured helmetless biker who's in a vegetative coma for decades." The same could happen if the rider was wearing a helmet. Furthermore, lots of people moan about the cost of the police and EMTs and other state agencies involved when a helmetless rider wrecks. This is ridiculous. Those same people and resources would have to be there if the rider had been wearing a helmet too. Same with any car accident. It doesn't matter whether the occupants were wearing seat belts or not, the same emergency services respond. But, anyway,.. if "you" and the government want to decide that the helmetless guy doesn't deserve to get a return (his medical care) on his tax dollars, fine. Pass a law that eliminates the requirement to fund the care of helmetless bikers who end up in persistent comas. Better add people who end up in the same condition because they failed to wear their seat belt, or who jaywalked and got hit by an uninsured driver, or who ignored the safety warning on whatever product they misused which then caused a severe injury.

Mike

p.s. I'm actually surprised that we don't have to wear helmets of some kind in our cars these days. After all, many many people sustain head injuries every day due to impacts with their windows or door posts or steering wheels during even minor accidents, that could be easily prevented through the use of mandatory helmet use.

[adr1an]

Well, I dug out a lid, to at least visually demonstrate why *I* choose to wear a Helmet. And if my username didn't give it away, or the helmet doesn't, I've spent the last 10 years riding R1's, and it was R6's before then (well, for the 2 yrs they were around, and FZR's beforehand... see a pattern ? ) ... for those entirely unfamiliar - lets just say "Crotch Rockets" lol

I also should mention - I don't hold a Car Licence. I ride every day, rain hail or shine. I used to also spend many days at the track - although its been a few years now..

Modern Helmets, built to International Standards, aren't quite as 'useless' as some people make out. They've come a looong way. And its up to the individual to decide, but statistically, they have been shown to make a big difference to fatalities in the countries that have long since implemented their requirement.

Anyway... Heres why I always will wear one, and always did before hand. This was the result of a high-side, whilst doing about 90mph... I came down on my right arm, and took that too the bone. I then proceeded to also slide on my head and tumble numerous times - as shown by the differing directions of the scrape marks. Witnesses state it was about 3 full somersaults... each time coming down on the lid.




The other side still has some of my internal juices on it, so I wont show that...

End result was; Major trauma to the rest of my body where I had exposed bone and severe road rash (leathers failed); and a Mild concussion.

I spent 2 weeks in hospital, due to concerns about infection from the road rash (as has been commented).

But the Helmet saved my life.

MRRiley is right - there comes a point where nothing helps - I have tragically watched a friend pass over in such circumstances.. However, every piece of gear I can wear that might make a difference between those accidents and the 'every day ones', I will....

---

Last edited by adr1an; 07-06-2011 at 04:30 AM.

[ChrisPlatt]

There are also people who don't wear seat belts claiming they'd rather be "thrown clear of the wreck".

Chris

[eddie1960]

There are also people who don't wear seat belts claiming they'd rather be "thrown clear of the wreck".

Chris

yep I'd much rather go through the windshield (and maybe get caught partway through, that'll hurt way less

[MRRiley]

There are also people who don't wear seat belts claiming they'd rather be "thrown clear of the wreck".

Chris

yep I'd much rather go through the windshield (and maybe get caught partway through, that'll hurt way less

Still, it should be an adult's right to make that decision for themselves. I do, just to let you know, believe that helmet / seat belt / child seat use for minors should be mandatory (though some hardcore parental rights people would argue with that).

[ChrisPlatt]

Too many in this country confuse rights with privileges.

Chris

[MRRiley]

Too many in this country confuse rights with privileges.

Chris

Exactly what are you saying is a privilege rather than a right Chris?

Mike

[ChrisPlatt]

Driving is a privilege, not a right. In all states you must be licensed to drive on public roads.
You must comply with all motor vehicle laws. That includes helmet laws for motorcyclists.
Failing this, you may be fined, your license revoked and possibly even imprisoned.

Chris

[GeneV]

Having narrowly survived a head injury from a bicycle crash late last year I do have some trouble understanding the dedication to being helmetless on two wheels. 25 years ago, my head stayed in one piece after motorcycle accident as a result of a helmet as well. I'd never be without one.

I'm more mixed on whether it should be law. Let's face it, motorcycling is not as safe as traveling by car no matter what you do.

[MRRiley]

Driving is a privilege, not a right. In all states you must be licensed to drive on public roads.
You must comply with all motor vehicle laws. That includes helmet laws for motorcyclists.
Failing this, you may be fined, your license revoked and possibly even imprisoned.

Chris

That is true Chris. Driving, or in this case Riding, IS a privilege and yes there are laws mandating licenses and other things like seat belts usage and helmets. Where those things are required I wear my seat belt and wear a helmet. Where those things are not required I still wear my seat belt and I usually wear my helmet. It is a personal choice!!!

The thing is, you are missing the point. There are a lot of us that believe that the government is over reaching and violating our rights (pursuit of happiness and all that jazz) when they require us to wear or use a particular "personal safety device." We believe it is OUR RIGHT to decide what measures of personal safety we wish to take or not take. As long as we have met the requirements in the law which qualify us to exercise "the privilege" of operating a motor vehicle and consider the "safety of others" (license, insurance, vehicle inspections, etc), then additional conditions, which essentially just affect ourselves, should not be imposed.

YOU, Chris, are free to give up as many of your own rights as you wish. That is, strangely in this context, YOUR RIGHT. However, it is not your right to force me to give up any of MINE! Read that whole "inalienable rights" thing. It was in something I read somewhere...

Mike

p.s. While It's true, that the man who died in this case, was riding helmetless illegally, that does not change the basic argument. He made the choice and he paid the price. The only people who have a real right to be angry with him over this is his family.