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07-08-2011, 12:43 PM   #1
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Armed Guards For Chicken & Pizza Shacks

Sad to see the changes that have occurred in our once safe (in my childhood) and proud major cities like my original hometown of Newark, NJ - like "bulletproof glass and cameras common in the eateries"

QuoteQuote:
Newark Star Ledger
Published: Thursday, July 07, 2011

NEWARK The Newark City Council today approved legislation that calls for late-night eateries to post armed guards after 9 p.m. until they close.

The new ordinance, sponsored by South Ward Councilman Ras Baraka, comes roughly a month after South Ward resident and police officer William Johnson was shot and killed while waiting to buy a slice of pizza at Texas Fried Chicken and Pizza.

According to Baraka, the chicken shacks and pizza joints that stay open late do little to serve the community and encourage crime.

"Most of these stores provide security for themselves but not for the customers they bring in," Baraka said Wednesday, referring to the bulletproof glass and cameras common in the eateries.

As of now, the ordinance would affect only those places that serve fewer than 20 people.

Larger, sit-down restaurants would not be affected.

If the eateries cannot provide the guards, they will be forced to close during the night-time hours.


07-08-2011, 12:51 PM   #2
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Wonder if that might just make it too expensive to stay open at all. They can just keep driving businesses and rich folks out of the state by making it too expensive to live and work there.

Let's see. Armed guards. Wasn't it a Police Officer that was shot? And wasn't he more than likely armed? Even off duty I assume he would still carry a weapon. So what will armed guards do that an armed police officer couldn't?
07-08-2011, 02:27 PM   #3
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10 to 1 that Councilman Baraka owns a "larger sit-down" restaurant...
07-08-2011, 02:50 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnInIndy Quote
So what will armed guards do that an armed police officer couldn't?
Having worked as an armed guard, I can answer that. The function is threefold:

1. Give the general public a sense of security.
2. Hopefully be a deterrent.
3. Be a target for those that aren't deterred.


Last edited by Parallax; 07-08-2011 at 03:03 PM.
07-08-2011, 03:00 PM   #5
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It is actually pretty common here to see security out at the eating establishments open later than 9 p.m.--both of them.
07-08-2011, 04:58 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnInIndy Quote
Wonder if that might just make it too expensive to stay open at all. They can just keep driving businesses and rich folks out of the state by making it too expensive to live and work there.
Normally I agree with you about those types of actions, especially in this state (I think only the city of Philadelphia is worse). But in places like this, let them go. These places are such shit holes anymore. We've got Camden in my end of the state, and quite honestly, nuking the entire city should be considered an option. But no, they'll keep pumping money into one of America's most dangerous cities (where far too many residents wear that title as a badge of honor of how "hardcore" they are), when raizing most of it would solve most of the budget shortfalls. They can't afford the police and fire personnel needed, but one of the biggest reasons they need so many is because of the vast amount of "vacant" buildings where fire and crime emminates. And most of the ones that aren't vacant honestly should be. But the politicians won't let you tear them down. Oh no, you've got to "rehab" them. Even when I was growing up there, it was bad, and now it's far, far worse, and it's a crying shame.
07-09-2011, 12:17 AM   #7
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I lived over in Jersey City and later Hoboken for a while, late 80's. Even back then Newark was a cess pool of crime, sorry. I got off the PATH a couple of times because I had business there and had to, but as a general rule I stayed the heck out of Newark. I always felt like I was taking my life in my hands walking around there and FYI even as a very pale gal I used to walk around Spanish Harlem and Harlem and had no problems whatsoever. Newark was a bit like certain areas of the Bronx back then. You went if you absolutely had to, but you didn't go there to have fun. Not unless you had a death wish.
07-09-2011, 06:58 AM   #8
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I like the comment that pizza and similar food shops do nothing to serve the community. Is he kidding? Most to the late night eateries survive off the people who work the night and graveyard shifts and take out is the general practice. The pizza shops near the industrial park where I work do 3 times the business at night than during the day shift lunch hour. Yeah, Newark is a cesspool but the solution is not to close or penalize the businesses that operate there. It's only going to make things worse.

07-09-2011, 07:20 AM   #9
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When I did grad work at Rutgers in 1970 Jersey residents agreed that if God wanted to give the world an enema Newark was the insertion point. Sad...
07-09-2011, 01:32 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
I like the comment that pizza and similar food shops do nothing to serve the community.
In some cases, that is true. May not be the case where you are, but in others it really is.
07-10-2011, 04:42 PM   #11
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Original Incident Clarification

Just to clarify the original incident of the shooting.
It was the result of a DRIVE BY action so I fail to see how an
armed guard inside the store would have prevented it.
Come to think of it - how would the shots have missed the guard also?

QuoteQuote:
Johnson was on his way to work the overnight shift at (a Newark high-rise) Garden Spires Thursday night when he stopped at a chicken shack near his South Ward home. As he was waiting for a slice of pizza, someone pulled up in a car, fired indiscriminately into the crowded restaurant and sped off. Two people suffered injuries but survived. Johnson, who was not in uniform, took a bullet and fell to the floor.
He died a few hours later.
07-10-2011, 04:50 PM   #12
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Some Other Replies

I sent that article to some friends who also had Newark origins.
Here are 2 of the replies.
I think these replies work in well with those on this topic so I am
posting them here also..

(From a Newark guy now living in North Carolina ( a right to carry state) - - -
QuoteQuote:
So let me try to understand this:
According to this person "Bakaka", the new evil in Newark is late night eateries??
These places are so bad that a presumably armed (off duty) police officer could get shot to death at one of these dens of inequity and,it is the fault of the person who owns this food establishment because he was "enticing" this poor criminal person to act irresponsibly? And the "correction" is to post other armed persons who would be presumably better shots. Did I get this right?

How F---ed up is that thinking?
And another from a Newarker now living in Wall Township - - -
QuoteQuote:
Actually what this "law" seems to be is a clumsy way to close down these chicken shacks, which apparently are gathering places for undesirables late at night. Instead of having the balls to simply close them, the law demands that the owners provide armed guards with licensed carry permits, which will be expensive and not cover whatever profits they make from chicken sales. Likewise, the only armed guards with carry permits will be off duty or retired cops, so the hope is that even if they do hire guards, the criminal element will stay away -- and go somewhere else, like East Orange.
07-11-2011, 06:15 AM   #13
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Not only is an armed guard ineffective against a drive-by, it is often a bigger risk than the criminal activity. I've been dealing with this for years with my business clients, and defending lawsuits that happen as a result of armed guards. Whenever the guard draws and fires his gun, one of three things will likely happen: 1) He shoots an alleged perpetrator, 2) He gets shot or 3) He shoots a bystander or damages property. Whichever of these possibilities occurs will get the owner of the business a lawsuit. Police have a certain level of immunity that private parties do not enjoy. Add to that the fact that most of the guards are not trained remotely as well as police, and you have a problem. Requiring armed guards does not seem to be a good answer.
07-11-2011, 12:11 PM   #14
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I'm reminded of a book, I forget what it was, some kind of punk sci fi, that started with a fully armed and armored tough guy shooting his way through an ambush... in order to deliver the pizza within the contratual 37 minutes.
07-11-2011, 12:22 PM   #15
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Starving the populace.... Costs.
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