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07-13-2011, 04:23 PM   #61
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07-13-2011, 04:53 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Obama has no idea of what he's started with that threat. Locally several retirees associations, military and otherwise are already talking about busing people to DC if anything like this happens. If it goes down the way I think it will? All those pissed off seniors are going to make the Vietnam war protests look like a Sunday tea party by comparison and you know what? I'll be right there beside them calling for Obama's resignation, impeachment, whatever too! You BET I will because I am so sick of all this BS it's not even funny.
It's not a threat. It's a statement of fact. And it's not something Obama wants to do, it's something he may be driven to do by the 59+ Republicans who Boehner says have pledged to refuse to sign off on ANY kind of debt ceiling raise.

Obama has been very clear about wanting to raise the debt ceiling. It's the Tea Party republicans who actively WANT the country to default.
07-13-2011, 06:44 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Your statement was way over the top as have been the summaries of what he said.

He did not say he would not pay social security. He said those checks were among the 70 million checks for which difficult "Sophie's Choice" decisions would be made, and that he could not guarantee that they would be paid. Should he, instead, reassure all Americans that a national default will have no effect on them?
The threat to SS is what the media picked up on and it is the message that has been hammered without a single objection from the administration or any democrats. He doesn't need to reassure everyone that everything will be peachy keen, but he should be (or at least have one of his top agents like Geithner) laying out exactly what Plan B is, who is affected, and how adversely they are affected. And it should be the real Plan B, not some political BS like saying SS would get cut off.

Obama's mention of SS was a desperate move by a desperate man made on a venue that targets senior citizens.

QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
My point was there wouldn't BE a national default if we were not spending so much money elsewhere! As far as I am concerned Obama and the rest of the fat cat people who's wallets he seems so determined to protect can just take a huge pay cut and this country can stop paying out the war money NOW before they'll ever get to cheat my folks out of their livelihood. There are some things politically you just don't threaten to do. Cutting off the elderly, the vets, the people who depend upon SS most, that's just stupid and wrong, particularly when you have a war budget to maintain.
Mag, you can rest assured that SS is not threatened. Social Security's Plan B is explained in the statement that they send out every year. In sum, projections say that under the current law the benefits will exceed the revenues and the trust fund (which includes principal and interest on the debt) will be exhausted in 2037 and at that point SS will reduce benefits to the amount that is sustained by revenues. In 2037 that amount is $0.73 on the dollar of promised benefits will be paid to people still collecting then.

If this plan B were implemented last year, Plan B would have paid out more than $0.99 on the dollar. If it were implemented next month because principal and interest on social security trust fund payments were not available to cover the revenue shortfall that plan B should be still be paying out ~$0.98 on the dollar. A slight cut but nothing catastrophic.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
The checks will be printed, but will the mail be delivered? You know how these union thugs get...
Direct Deposit will still work.

QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
It's not a threat. It's a statement of fact. And it's not something Obama wants to do
Just like its not a wife beater's fault that he hits his wife. She should have done the dishes, but now look what she made him do.

Last edited by mikemike; 07-13-2011 at 07:02 PM.
07-13-2011, 07:24 PM - 1 Like   #64
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What a lot of people have a hard time getting to even grasp is that there is 100 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities that the government will incur over the next 75 years. There is currently no slated tax revenue to cover this. In order to cover it, you would have to raise revenue by 1.333 trillion dollars and in order to do that EVERY SINGLE TAX in the united states would have to be raised to an weighted average of 40%, roughly matching that of Sweden.

I hate to break it to you, but we cannot afford that. The younger generations are not going to go along with huge tax increases to finance the mistakes of a previous generation. Now SS can be at least saved by raising the retirement age but medicare is done.

What we have been living under for the past 40 years is a period of horrible governance, politicians desperate for economic growth that wasn't there telling people not to go out and buy things they cannot afford because money sitting in a bank doesn't grow the economy. 50% of americans have savings of less than 25000 dollars. They have been taught to dependent on social security and medicare for retirement and they were duped.

I have little doubt however that congress will put a bandage on it and pass the buck to a new congress ten years from now along with the bill to a younger generation. They are badyboomers after all... greatest generation my ass.


Last edited by Chwisch87; 07-13-2011 at 07:54 PM.
07-13-2011, 07:43 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote

a desperate move by a desperate man
Comparing the President to a wife-beater--desperately over the top.

Who is threatening to shut down the government for the second time because they don't get all of their way? I wonder how much this will cost the government in interest over the next 10 years.

Ben is absolutely right. Cut off the debt ceiling, and tough choices will have to be made. That is a statement of fact, and whether the press (or some posters here) choose to sensationalize it or not, it is true. I don't think SS payments will cease, either, but this situation has never existed before.

You never answered my question about whether you want him to reassure everyone that the default will not hurt them. Is that the responsible thing to do?
07-13-2011, 08:07 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
You never answered my question about whether you want him to reassure everyone that the default will not hurt them. Is that the responsible thing to do?
I think that he should continue with his negotiations but have one of his top lieutenants like Tim Geithner explain what Plan B is. Lay out plan B in specific terms who gets paid in full, who gets partially paid, who gets an IOU, and what programs come to an all stop until a deal is hammered out. That doesn't reassure everyone but it will reassure some people and it gives those with a reason to worry a couple of weeks to get their affairs in order.

That seems like a reasonable level of transparency to ask from our government.
07-13-2011, 08:17 PM   #67
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I think that question would be better asked of McConnell.
It's the republicans who are really forcing the issue.
It has been since they lost Bush.
07-13-2011, 08:30 PM   #68
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Our country is going to stay screwed up until we get Big Business out of the goverment. Big Business runs the world and the goverments are just there Chess Pieces. Rich people don't pay SSI and they will never receive it either.

07-13-2011, 08:41 PM   #69
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Here, here, I've been saying that all along.
The worst thing is, we gave them the money to do it.
It's how corporations impose a tax on us too.
07-13-2011, 10:03 PM   #70
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On Deficit, Americans Prefer Spending Cuts; Open to Tax Hikes





80% of Americans are open to tax hikes.
07-13-2011, 10:05 PM   #71
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Also: President Obama abruptly walks out of talks - Jonathan Allen and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

QuoteQuote:
“Eric, don’t call my bluff,” the president said, warning Cantor that he would take his case “to the American people.” He told Cantor that no other president — not Ronald Reagan, the president said — would put up with the treatment he was getting from the House majority leader.
QuoteQuote:
“Then he said we also ought to get in the mode here, because we’re going to have to decide by Friday which way we’re going,” Cantor said. “He said really we ought to all start to think about things we can do rather than things we can’t.”

That’s when Cantor said he would be willing to abandon his own insistence on having just one vote on the debt ceiling if they could agree to a smaller package of cuts in exchange for a shorter-term hike that would require another increase before the 2012 election.

But Obama said he wouldn’t do the debt-limit increase incrementally and that he would veto a short-term bill.

“That’s when he got very agitated,” Cantor told reporters.

Obama lit him up. Cantor sat in stunned silence,” said an official in the meeting. “It was incredible. If the public saw Obama he would win in a landslide.”

One Democratic aide added that “Cantor is the last guy who should complain about people abruptly leaving meetings.”
07-13-2011, 10:07 PM   #72
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And finally, from that famous left-wing resident of the Oval Office, Dwight D. Eisenhower:

QuoteQuote:
"We cannot afford to reduce taxes, reduce income,until we have in sight a program of expenditure that shows that the factors of income and outgo will be balanced."

"Only a fool would try to deprive working men and working women of their right to join the union of their choice."

" . . . Workers have a right to organize into unions and to bargain collectively with their employers, and . . . a strong, free labor movement is an invigorating and necessary part of our industrial society."

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
07-13-2011, 11:37 PM   #73
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Repubs are peering into the abyss

QuoteQuote:
..For months, the Republican leaders have emphatically pledged that there will be no increase in the federal debt ceiling absent huge cuts in government spending and fundamental changes in popular social programs, all without the whiff of a tax increase.

Now, with negotiations stalled and a potential default by the United States government just over the horizon, they are being held to those promises by their own rank-and-file, leaving them in a bind that is defying easy resolution and putting them at risk of being blamed if things end badly.

Behind closed doors and by phone, they groped for a solution and struggled to assert some kind of control over the situation as rank-and-file Republican members, especially in the House, grew more confrontational.

Panic had not yet set in, but the worry and tension were evident as seasoned lawmakers of both parties whose experience told them that Congress always finds a white-knuckle way to avert disaster wondered if this was going to be the time when it did not.

“Our problem is, we made a big deal about this for three months,” said Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina.

“How many Republicans have been on TV saying, ‘I am not going to raise the debt limit,’ ” said Mr. Graham, including himself in the mix of those who did so. “We have no one to blame but ourselves.”
Link ---> here.

.
07-14-2011, 12:58 AM   #74
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I think Obama is quite right to spell out where the intransigence of congress is leading the country, and the time has come for Americans to stand up for common sense on dealing with the debt instead of wailing and gnashing their teeth over tax rises for the wealthy.
07-14-2011, 03:02 AM - 1 Like   #75
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...At least to the degree the Republicans are business' lap dogs, we will see movement on their part... business does not want to see the financial chaos that may result from the debt ceiling not being raised. The Republicans problem - and their sponsors' - are the rabid simpletons elected,with their extreme views and inability to grasp the political process.

The Tea Party is very useful in moving the political debate - and the ground on which a compromise is made - further right, as we can readily see of late. Democrats control the Senate and the WH, yet play on the Republican court. This I believe was the original intent of the corporate sponsors - a bunch of attack dogs on the far right to move the realistic compromise further right. But they got more (or less?) than they bargained for: these people actually hold onto campaign promises and principles, however misguided or noble that may be.
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