[stevewig]

An interesting view point............

GOP leaders must free themselves from the Tea Party’s grip - The Washington Post

Think about the underlying dynamic here. The evidence suggests that both Boehner and Cantor understand the peril of the game their Republican colleagues are playing. They know we are closer than we think to having the credit rating of the United States downgraded. This may happen before Aug. 2, the date everyone is using as the deadline for action.

Unfortunately, neither of the two House leaders seems in a position to tell the obstreperous right that it is flatly and dangerously wrong when it claims that default is of little consequence. Rarely has a congressional leadership seemed so powerless.

Compare the impasse Boehner and Cantor are in with the aggressive maneuvering of Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell. He knows how damaging default would be and is working with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to concoct a way out.

McConnell can do this because he doesn’t confront the Tea Party problem that so bedevils Boehner and Cantor. Many of the Tea Party’s Senate candidates — Sharron Angle in Nevada, Christine O’Donnell in Delaware and Joe Miller in Alaska — lost in 2010. Boehner and Cantor, by contrast, owe their majority in part to Tea Party supporters. McConnell has a certain freedom to govern that his House leadership colleagues do not.

And this is why Republicans are going to have to shake themselves loose from the Tea Party. Quite simply, the Tea Party’s legions are not interested in governing, at least as governing is normally understood in a democracy with separated powers. They believe that because the Republicans won one house of Congress in one election, they have a mandate to do whatever the GOP leaders must free themselves from the Tea Party’s grip - The Washington Post right wing wants. A Democratic president and Senate are dismissed as irrelevant nuisances, although they were elected, too.

The Tea Party lives in an intellectual bubble where the answers to every problem lie in books by F.A. Hayek, Glenn Beck or Ayn Rand. Rand’s anti-government writings, regarded by her followers as modern-day scripture — Rand, an atheist, would have bridled at that comparison — are particularly instructive.

When the hero of Rand’s breakthrough novel, “The Fountainhead,” doesn’t get what he wants, he blows up a building. Rand’s followers see that as gallant. So perhaps it shouldn’t surprise us that blowing up our government doesn’t seem to be a big deal to some of the new radical individualists in our House of Representatives.

Our country is on the edge. Our capital looks like a lunatic asylum to many of our own citizens and much of the world. We need to act now to restore certainty by extending the debt ceiling through the end of this Congress.

Boehner and Cantor don’t have time to stretch things out to appease their unappeasable members, and they should settle their issues with each other later. Nor do we have time to work through the ideas from the Gang of Six. The Gang has come forward too late with too little detail. Their suggestions should be debated seriously, not rushed through.

Republicans need to decide whether they want to be responsible conservatives or whether they will let the Tea Party destroy the House That Lincoln Built in a glorious explosion. Such pyrotechnics may look great to some people on the pages of a novel or in a movie, but they’re rather unpleasant when experienced in real life.

[GeneV]

I don't think that the GOP listens much to E.J. Dionne.

However, prying a bit loose from the far right would be helpful to the entire country. A lot of the GOP is drunk on 2010.

[mikemike]

If they did that, the democrats would control the house.

Currently in the house there are 240 republicans and 192 democrats. Of those 240 republicans, 90 are tea partiers so if they drove them out of the republican caucus, the mix would be 192 democrats, 150 republicans, and 90 tea partiers.

At that point, the tea party becomes king makers because they are able to pick who is the speaker of the house. In that case it certainly wouldn't be John Boehner because they would be totally pissed at him I would say it probably wouldn't even be a republican out of spite. The odds are that a blue dog democrat would be elevated to the speaker position in a coalition government between either the tea party and democrats or the traditional republicans and democrats.

[GeneV]

If they did that, the democrats would control the house.

Currently in the house there are 240 republicans and 192 democrats. Of those 240 republicans, 90 are tea partiers so if they drove them out of the republican caucus, the mix would be 192 democrats, 150 republicans, and 90 tea partiers.

At that point, the tea party becomes king makers because they are able to pick who is the speaker of the house. In that case it certainly wouldn't be John Boehner because they would be totally pissed at him I would say it probably wouldn't even be a republican out of spite. The odds are that a blue dog democrat would be elevated to the speaker position in a coalition government between either the tea party and democrats or the traditional republicans and democrats.

How do you figure who is a tea partier in the house?

[Nesster]

good question that.

Also, should this split occur, there is little doubt which way the presidential election would go.

[mikemike]

How do you figure who is a tea partier in the house?

Just a ball park, 87 freshmen plus a few of the incumbents... Even if there were only 30 tea partiers in the house they could dethrone Boehner.

[GeneV]

good question that.

Also, should this split occur, there is little doubt which way the presidential election would go.

That may be true if they don't break. The GOP can't win without the independents, and they are not thrilled with the Tea Party types.

[GeneV]

Just a ball park, 87 freshmen plus a few of the incumbents... Even if there were only 30 tea partiers in the house they could dethrone Boehner.

I haven't heard that this is an organized caucus. It is just a bunch of wild freshmen.

However, it is not clear that the leadership changes. Let's say they "break" with the Tea Party. What does that mean? Perhaps they just stop listening. Will the Tea Partiers vote for Pelosi or become Bernie Sanders/Joe Lieberman independents on the right, who keep the control of the congress in the side they dislike least, but don't necessarily adopt the platform?

[mikemike]

I haven't heard that this is an organized caucus. It is just a bunch of wild freshmen.

However, it is not clear that the leadership changes. Let's say they "break" with the Tea Party. What does that mean? Perhaps they just stop listening. Will the Tea Partiers vote for Pelosi or become Bernie Sanders/Joe Lieberman independents on the right, who keep the control of the congress in the side they dislike least, but don't necessarily adopt the platform?

I just looked it up and there is actually a Tea Party caucus with 60 members in the house. While there is no way they would put someone like Pelosi in charge, I think they could make a deal with the dems and pick a democrat speaker and let Pelosi be the dem whip and secure their agenda with a few key committee chairs in the coalition government. There were 5 democrats who voted yes on "cut, cap, and balance" so I would say one of them would have the pole position for speaker... All of this is if and only if the boehner and the republicans actively drive the tea party away. And of course, like Nesster pointed out, driving the tea party away would clench an Obama victory (unless a tea party candidate got on the republican ticket), would probably result in serious electoral challenges for every sitting republican in the house, and it would move them further away from controlling the senate.

In sum, EJ Dione is out of his pinko commy mind

[GeneV]

I just looked it up and there is actually a Tea Party caucus with 60 members in the house. While there is no way they would put someone like Pelosi in charge, I think they could make a deal with the dems and pick a democrat speaker and let Pelosi be the dem whip and secure their agenda with a few key committee chairs in the coalition government. There were 5 democrats who voted yes on "cut, cap, and balance" so I would say one of them would have the pole position for speaker... All of this is if and only if the boehner and the republicans actively drive the tea party away. And of course, like Nesster pointed out, driving the tea party away would clench an Obama victory (unless a tea party candidate got on the republican ticket), would probably result in serious electoral challenges for every sitting republican in the house, and it would move them further away from controlling the senate.

In sum, EJ Dione is out of his pinko commy mind

I think you may underestimate the danger of leaving them in the caucus. It is likely to lead the same place, except that they may take the economy down with them. Wall street will not support the economic suicide bombers, nor will the independents, who are becoming the majority. I doubt the Tea Party folks will support any Dem. as speaker, and I stick by my opinion that they are stuck.

[audiobomber]

The Republican party drove the bus into the ditch then refused to help push it out, in case the Dems got credit. Now the Tea Party are driving along in the ditch, headed for a cliff.

[GeneV]

As is often the case, the Onion is not far from the truth. Congress Continues Debate Over Whether Or Not Nation Should Be Economically Ruined | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[mikemike]

The Republican party drove the bus into the ditch then refused to help push it out, in case the Dems got credit. Now the Tea Party are driving along in the ditch, headed for a cliff.

The slurpy is almost finished, have the dems pushed the bus out of the ditch so we can go get a refill at 7-11?

Didn't think so.

$17,000 was spent on stimulus for every man, woman, and child in this country. Where is the money now?

In the hands of wall street and the unions.

The dems might be pushing the bus thats in the ditch, but they are too stupid to take the parking brake off and instead of pushing from the rear of the bus, they are pushing from the side. Republicans aren't helping because the democrats ideas of how to fix the economy are fatally flawed and will never work. Why waste the energy?

[mikemike]

As is often the case, the Onion is not far from the truth. Congress Continues Debate Over Whether Or Not Nation Should Be Economically Ruined | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

According to the onion's highly scientific poll question, "Should the nation be allowed to fall into economic ruin?" A majority of respondents say "Yes."

[audiobomber]

$17,000 was spent on stimulus for every man, woman, and child in this country. Where is the money now?

LOL! Obama inherited that mess. The institutions were ruined and bailouts were in full flight when he took office. Incentives did have a positive impact on Chrysler and GM and the financial institutes seem much more stable.

The whole bankruptcy crisis that's raging right now is because the Tea Party is too ignorant to understand the consequences of their recklessness. Fortunately 70% of Americans polled believe the Republicans are to blame for the current crisis, and being politicians, the Republicans will have to compromise.