[ripit]

Yea another ebay thread from me. I'm kind of curious what feedback others would leave under various circumstances. I'm kind of getting tired of getting burned and am feeling more like hitting hard with feedback or at least dinging stars/neutral feedback. If for no other reason than to discourage people from selling crap lenses, be it intentionally, by mistake, or out of pure ignorance about lenses. I have to keep reminding myself that many purchases were good or came out good in the end. Some may not be a bad feedback situation, but would you ding a star or two? Some of these have already had feedback left (just curious about what others opinions are). It would seem that now days, the stars ae more important than negative (ebay slaughters sellers on bad stars).

Just a little back ground. I seem to be unable to escape from a long bout of LBA over the last couple months. I have bought 34 lenses if I'm not mistaken, 14 of which were slr type. I have also bought probably 20 various caps, hoods etc. and lots more.

So here are a few instances (these are real, not hypothetical).
There is one auction on 2 slr lenses where it is my intention to try and determine the best way to punish the seller as much as humanly possible (unless something develops that changes things, I just got those lenses a few days ago). Its a thread in its own so I'm not going into details, but it is influencing my mood towards sellers. It alone isn't making me want to give bad feedback to everyone though. I got 2 more slr lenses yesterday and even though one is minolta mount (took my chances with no mount listed), I gave glowingly good feedback already (the seller deserved it). There sere no problems and they were as described.
Camera bag (big one for camera and lenses)
Paid 7 dollars shipped. Seller paid 9$ shipping, Inexperienced seller, very nice with great communication (asked about some lenses but bidomatic messed up and didn't bid on those
No description of condition, bad stank like mold and mildew, was damp and under the bottom liner that was removable were a bunch of holes rotted in the bag. Decided not to leave feedback (felt sorry for seller and 7$ is not a lot to eat, though the writeoffs are adding up). never contacted seller about problem

4 tokina front mount teleconverters, all but the 2x are similar to a cheap 500mm f8 (big empty tube with some glass and front turns to focus)
2x, two 4x and a 5.5x
paid 24$, seller refunded 9$ of it. Last response from seller was kind of angry (think he might have been controlling his anger before that), described as very good condition, untested. Condition was fair overall (not too bad overall but issues like dirty, dent in filter threads, scratching on lenses though nothing terrible). the 5.5x lens had bad fungus. After cleaning, image quality was very noticeably effected. Fungus was obvious before cleaning. one of the 4x had fungus though not as bad. The fungus lenses were marked with red tape, the non fungus with green so someone at some point knew about the damage.
Though I got a hot deal, the 1 4x is all I get out of it (got a million 2x) so maybe warm deal at best.

Can not find this one in my ebay history? but a tou five star 500mm
paid about 20$, described as very good condition as I recall, rear element and inside elements were very dirty. I though the front element was cracked but it was a hair inside. It took some work but it actually cleaned up good. I know, cheap crappy lens but in the end, good condition for 20$ (normally more like 50$ on ebay if described well and in good condition).

Cel phone razr v3c 20$, sent budget model v3a and new it before sending. She messaged me about it being the wrong phone claiming it was comparable but sent before I could respond Reviews call it the budget version (things like 0.3MP camera instead of 1.6MP camera). At first was digging for sympathy (a 70 year old grand mother trying to pay the bills), but at the end things about being a professional seller, selling a dozen of this model alone a week (should know your product then) and basically telling me in not so many words I was a lier and and was full of crap. Any argument to make me look wrong. Very begrudgingly gave a 7$ refund on 21$. Had to really pretend to be nice to even get that.
fyi, I probably would have been happy with the model I should have gotten, but did wind up getting another phone to replace the cheaper one.

[K-9]

Any lens/equipment not usable you really have to leave negative. They've wasted your time and money. Don't feel bad for them, as they shouldn't be selling on ebay if they don't know what they are doing. A moldy and rotted bag, even at $7, would be enough for me to leave negative.

Anything that is just in lesser condition than stated, but usable, I would go with positive with low star ratings, or neutral.

[mtansley]

I would agree with this, ding them with negative feedback and comments about bad customer service.

Try to contact them once with your concerns since anyone can make a mistake but if they're rude or not interested (as long as you're not rude in your initial contact with them even if you want to hit them over the head with the defective product) then hit them where it can hurt them (in the feedback)

I buy & sell on ebay and have a 100% good feedback due to being honest about condition of items. If it's bad or broken, I say so in the description. After all, that could be just what the buyer is wanting in the product.

[ripit]

So if a seller makes some attempt to make it right (like partial refund), would you still ding stars or even give bad feedback for selling junk or even fixer upers listed as good condition in the first place? I have gotten several that were repairable, cleanable etc. and became usable condition but much worse condition that listed. Not everyone is going to know how to tear apart a lens either. I'm tending towards at least dinging some stars, even if in the end I got a usable lens/item, as too many are not near in the condition they were described.

[mtansley]

Difficult call to make.

Did the seller have enough experience or knowledge to know that the lens was a fixer up or cleaning was needed. They may have just looked through it and looked at the outside of it. Granted that they should mention that they have very little or no knowledge of photography and can't accurately assess the item.

Their idea of good condition and your idea may be miles apart. It's shiny and the knobs & levers turn & I can look through it. Therefore, it's a good lens. Oil on the blades - Oh, I thought they needed to have lubrication. Fungus in the lens - oh, I thought it just needed some cleaning.

It's not fair to ding the 10th bad lens seller because the other 9 (if they were all completely different sellers and you knew they were different) also sold bad lenses although you'd be tempted to and I can completely agree with your feelings.

I'd want to contact them first and if they still prove to be a j**k then you could ding stars & provide some negative feedback.

If they do try to correct the problem (partial refund) then I don't think stars should be dinged but your feedback could reference the problem and the solution.

Sometimes they may also have had to deal with bad buyers (there are some out there!!)

Anyway, just some of my thoughts on the subject for what they're worth.

Bad buyers- I had one buy a nice Metz flash from me and then complained that it was faulty because he put batteries in it and they 'exploded' when he turned it on and leaked acid everywhere. I had him ship it back & refunded him his money. He'd put the batteries in wrong I think or had used old batteries. I cleaned it up best I could & relisted it stating that it had some battery acid damage and still worked. Another buyer bought it, and commented that it was in much better condition than the description had lead him to believe.

[pxpaulx]

I honestly wouldn't expect any non-camera sellers to know a thing about the lenses you're buying - old, possibly broken, likely dirty (possibly beyond potential clean) stuff is exactly what I would be expecting if I were constantly bidding on auctions for dated camera goods with final values between ten and forty bucks.

If they are a regular seller of similar goods that would be a different story, I would expect accurate descriptions. If you're bidding on lenses from regular sellers and they don't discuss key words like fungus, haze, clean/snappy aperture blades, I'd honestly say you are just taking your chances. The worst I've ever done is neutral feedback, or abstained. My worst experience was an mp3 player purchase from a reseller - sent it, and it didn't arrive in a month (they didn't have tracking) - they sent me a new one, and 2 days later the first showed up...so it was the post office's fault. I sent the second one back and let the seller know, didn't leave feedback on that transaction.

[ripit]

@mtansley, if by punishing the 10th seller for what the other 9 did you are referring to my statement about wanting to punish one seller as much as possible, that's not the case. He sold 2 lenses that were supposed to be his own, but his camera failed so he is selling the lenses. Described as very good working condition. I messaged about glass and he said it was good and clean. One was filthy, corroded mount with small spots of rust through the plating, zoom was jammed, aperture stuck etc. Invisible spots inside front groups (that became quite visible once I fixed the zoom). Other one had spots of fungus on the front (very obvious at any angle but at the right angle you could tell the damage was severe), also corrosion, dirty, poor condition. He is ignoring messages (responded to 2 out of 6 in a week one of which was did you get my messages and the answer was just no).

Maybe this would clarify. Take the 4 tokina lenses as an example. Percentage wise the partial refund was not really sufficient. What I got out of it was worth what I paid though. I would have really loved to have had that 5.5x in good condition (main reason for bidding though the 4x is desirable to me too). Seller tried to do something to make it right with the partial refund (though his final message showed he was pretty mad about having to do it).
I could just leave good feedback
I could give good feedback but ding 1 or 2 stars on as described, because it wasn't.
The seller probably didn't know lenses but would you even take a single star away for not being as described (I'm not mad about this one, its resolved to my satisfaction), but do I give even a little less that perfect feedback just based on the fact that it was in fact not described? Its in my nature to give to good feedback if I'm happy in the end, but after so many issues, some minor some not, I am tending more towards a little less that perfect feedback. Perhaps dinging 1 star if it was substantially not as described even if there was an acceptable resolution.
Fyi I know that many don't know lenses and I am giving a lot of leeway for that. perfect condition usually means dirty, maybe worn and ok condition. If it cleans up decent and is usable, and was cheap, that's usually good enough for me. Repairs or major internal cleaning that requires dissasembly is where it get to be an issue for me where I think the seller needs to do something.
Fungus is also a major issue to me.

Another side note, got another good one today (plenty have been good).
It s smc-fa 28-80mm 3.5-.4.7 power zoom. The power zoom button was broken (listing implied that the lens could not be zoomed at all). I don't think he realized and I didn't know either that you can pull the collar back and manual zoom. Works fine that way and is in excellent condition for 8$ shipped. Reviews very quite a bit on image quality (though broken power zoom seems very common), so for 8$ it a new toy to play with. Who cares if I have 4 other lenses in that zoom range including faster ones as well as decent AF ones (just try and take it a way, I'll kick and scream and hold my breath till you give it back, you wouldn't take candy away from a baby would you).

[mtansley]

Sounds like you're spot on with wanting to punish the one seller. Not responding to messages is very much a no no in my book. (Pentax Canada is unfortunately a good one for not responding).

With your stated clarification then you do have a good reason to 'punish' them with less stars, also mention in the feedback whether they replied or not. (I wish there was a way of having longer feedback). Especially when you specifically asked them something about the product, then their reply comes out as practically a lie. Actually, on that one that didn't really want to refund anything, I'd mention that in the feedback as well as less stars. I always read the feedback to make sure others haven't stated that the seller is a jerk as well.

If I treated you the way you've been treated I'd expect less stars and negative feedback as well.

Some of it also depends on how they respond to you when you query their description.

I'm envious on that 28-80, who needs power zoom, chances are it will zoom way past where you want it.

[ripit]

I'm thinking the seller on the 28-80 has earned his perfect feedback. Not only in nice shape, but 3 days from order to arrival going from California to New York. 5$ for priority mail (3$ purchase price but I guess that's the luck of the draw with an auction). It's a pain switching from a 2.8 zoom to a 3.5 but I love the auto focus on this. It locks really fast even in lower light and stays locked instead of locking and then wandering a little and the locking again (my other AF zoom in this range does that). It does seem to micro adjust the focus but doesn't jump out of focus a bit and have to refocus. Image quality seems decent but I have only looked at it on the camera (zoomed in etc).

[mtansley]

I've got to start looking for these lenses a bit more.

My trouble is that a lot of vendors in the US don't want the implied hassle in shipping to Canada. One actually asked me about what he has to do about customs & duty, I replied that "you don't, I do. Fill in the customs form honestly and the rest is my problem."

[ripit]

The funny thing is, overall, the cheapest lenses were the best and the the most expensive were the worst. Just a theory, more honest sellers with honest shipping and lower starting prices are selling better lenses. Sellers that are all about the money do things like jack up shipping to profit on it, have higher starting prices to guarantee a decent profit, and do things like trying to get a big profit off of junk. I have seen more valuable lenses start off at 99 cents and 5# shipping and skyrocket to 100$ at the end. I guess its a way to get more off a lens that you know won't sell for much. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with making a profit, just observing a possible pattern.

I also think I know why the power zoom has such good focus. Apparently on a few film cameras that were fully compatible with power zoom, it could do functions like zooming in and out automatically to keep the subject the same size. I would think it would have to be capable of staying on focus pretty well to achieve something like that.

If you are looking into older manual focus lenses (or maybe fixer upper AF lenses), there are some real gems out there. Unfortunately it seems they are mixed in with plenty of average lenses and more garbage than I would like. That has been my experience anyway. Most people have recommended only going with sellers with top feedback, lots of good pictures and an excellent description. Unfortunately those seem to sell for a LOT more. I'm thinking stick with the top feedback only thing (one article I read said anything less than 99.7% feedback is bad and I think I'm tending to agree now). If you want bargains, you might have to take some chances. Inside information helps. I got a tou five star 500mm for 20$. There was no specific mount listed (I thing it said I think its canon) and the picture looked like canon if I recall right. It was canon but my research told me that lens was t mount only. In this case I was right, it was a canon t mount adapter and I already had a k mount t mount. Most vivitar lenses have letters on the bottom side so you may be able to tell the mount even if there is no picture of it and the seller doesn't know.

Of course if you gamble and loose, its your fault. I have left great feedback on some where I got burned but I got burned on my own gamble, not their not as described.

[ripit]

I've got to start looking for these lenses a bit more.

My trouble is that a lot of vendors in the US don't want the implied hassle in shipping to Canada. One actually asked me about what he has to do about customs & duty, I replied that "you don't, I do. Fill in the customs form honestly and the rest is my problem."

Doesn't shipping cost (and import duties) kill the deal?

[mtansley]

Interesting about the lenses and prices variation.

You really have to know your product though when buying on ebay.

I did get a good lens for my Nikon (I shoot both Pentax & Nikon since I can rent Nikon lenses and Pentax lenses are virtually unavailable for rent) although I did pay $160 for it. A sigma 28-70 2.8 constant aperture. Only one other person was interested and I think it was because the description didn't really mention the f2.8, you had to look closely at the photos and it was advertised as a film camera lens. Luckily the seller had put up a lot of good photos so it was easy to verify mount and other details. Some people seem to think that you need special 'digital' lenses for digital cameras. It seems like a lot of money but from pricing them in other places they seem to run for about $250 and up. Being from the film age it's big & heavy and it great condition. Not a bargain like yours but one I'm very happy with and the seller was great to deal with. I asked him a couple of questions and he admitted he didn't know much about lenses and asked me to tell him what to look for. Someone like that I really like dealing with.

What I really want now is a matching lens for my Pentax, I keep looking but at the moment the sellers that have them know what they are and how much they should be going for.

Agree about the feedback when it's your fault. You lose some & you win some & hopefully the wins outnumber the loses. So far, they have for me on ebay.

[mtansley]

Doesn't shipping cost (and import duties) kill the deal?

Generally, camera stuff comes into Canada duty & customs free. I won't buy from anyone that only uses UPS or Fedex, they charge a lot & charge a lot for customs brokerage fees even when there is no duty payable. I prefer USPS & Canada Post and sometimes shipping does kill the deal. Sometimes though, shipping isn't too bad.

I find that you just have to know the product and approximate shipping costs and if they quote too much, then that's that. I figure that in most cases, the item I want will probably appear again from someone else.

[InlawBiker]

I've bought and sold hundreds of ebay items. I just follow some simple rules.

Only buy from people who leave good descriptions, have actual photos of the item and have 99.5% or better feedback.

If the item isn't as described give the seller a chance to fix it. Mistakes happen but a good seller will make it good. If they don't then, well leave them a negative.

Mostly I've been selling lately and I've run into some real, er, "difficult" buyers. I have to grin and bear it, ebay heavily favors the buyer. I would say they're downright hostile to sellers these days.