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jogiba · 08-06-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Worried about the U.S. government's recently-downgraded credit rating? Don't be! Texas Governor and possible presidential candidate Rick Perry and 30,000 people just asked Jesus to help out with all of America's problems, and he should be here in an hour or so.

The American Family Association—America's most gay-hating Christian club—and Perry, who regards the separation of church and state with the same contempt he does snakes, threw a big prayer party at Reliant Stadium in Houston to help America out with its troubles. And, while the more cynical among you might think of it as a kind of proxy campaign rally for Perry's likely presidential run, this bad boy was all about Jesus:

"Lord, you are the source of every good thing," Mr. Perry said, as he bowed his head, closed his eyes and leaned into a microphone at Reliant Stadium here. "You are our only hope, and we stand before you today in awe of your power and in gratitude for your blessings, and humility for our sins. Father, our heart breaks for America. We see discord at home. We see fear in the marketplace. We see anger in the halls of government, and as a nation we have forgotten who made us, who protects us, who blesses us, and for that we cry out for your forgiveness."

Rick Perry Teams Up With Jesus to Bring America Jobs

Ratmagiclady · 08-06-2011, 08:11 PM

Consider the lilies of their field, and their PR departments...

SpecialK · 08-06-2011, 08:24 PM

I understand an atheist will never be president, but it still disappoints me.

wildman · 08-07-2011, 11:42 AM

I wonder what it's like to go through life thinking you know the mind of God.

Lex Madera · 08-07-2011, 11:51 AM

Yes, let's elect another former Governor of Texas to be president. It worked out so well last time.

Full disclosure: Native-born Texan, lived there until I was 17. I consider myself a refugee from West Texas.

**grhazelton** · 08-07-2011, 01:42 PM

Those who believe that god watches the fall of every sparrow have a real, if unacknowledged, problem; why is there evil in the world? The consideration of this is called I think theodicy, the attempt to reconcile god's omnipotence, onnipresence, omniscience, and benevolence with the existence of evil and misfortune,whether wrought by mankind or by natural disasters.

I doubt that Brother Perry and his fundamentalist bretheren have ever given this much thought, beyond the fatuous catch-all statements: "There's a purpose for everything," or "It's all a part of God's plan, who are we to question?" As my wife once said to someone who offered this "consolation" to her, "Someday someone will tell me that and I'll slap them silly!"

To me he also seems to be abrogating his and human responsibilty for both the flaws in our not-so-exceptional-any-longer country and for the clear-eyed effort to fix things. It's not in the bible, but truly god helps those who help themselves.

And of course we have the problem of mounting such a spectacle with the at least implied endorsement of the state of Texas. This is I think a separation of church and state issue. I find it a deeply cynical ploy to wrap Perry's possible campaign for the nomination in a religious garb. For shame! Mr Jefferson and Mr Madison would be appalled at this cheap grandstanding.

Lex Madera · 08-07-2011, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by grhazelton

And of course we have the problem of mounting such a spectacle with the at least implied endorsement of the state of Texas. This is I think a separation of church and state issue. I find it a deeply cynical ploy to wrap Perry's possible campaign for the nomination in a religious garb. For shame! Mr Jefferson and Mr Madison would be appalled at this cheap grandstanding.

Amen brother! You can add John Adams to that list, as well. The founding fathers were never so pious and such bible-thumpers as some would have you believe.

**grhazelton** · 08-07-2011, 02:37 PM

The majority of the Founding Fathers were deists! So many of the bible thumpers forget that Nature's God as appealed to in the Declaration is not the sort of god they appeal to, and there is no mention whatsoever of god in the Constitution. Many conflate the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. I like to think of the Declaration as a position paper, while the Constitution is the operating manual for the country.

Probably too fine a distinction for the likes of Gov. Perry.

GeneV · 08-08-2011, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

Consider the lilies of their field, and their PR departments...

That same verse came to mind for me. Jesus probably assumed God provided the lillies unemployment or welfare with which to buy their fine clothes.

jeffkrol · 08-08-2011, 06:50 AM

Quote:

I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.

In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty.

I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.

Thomas Jefferson...

magkelly · 08-08-2011, 01:48 PM

One of the reasons I never felt the urge to join a mainstream religion is the ludicrous assumption such religions make that they can actually know what is in the mind of that which created us, speak for it et all. Humans can be too arrogant for words sometimes, I think. Like any of us can legally speak for something that can create universes, time et all. That Being must be as far above is as we are above amoebas when you think about it. Does an amoeba have the legitimate right to speak for us? Hardly.

I've got nothing personal against the mainstream religions but I can't say I'm too inclined to let them speak for me. Whether Jesus existed as a man or not I can't say, but I'm not too into believing the whole god-man divine being viewpoint of him and I don't believe for one moment that some preacher guy on TV has a direct pipeline to our creator by virtue of believing in all that.

That something bigger than us created us is pretty evident to me, pretty logical. I can't make planets, stars, universes, obviously, but the rest of it, the trappings of religion, all the rules, myths and supposed messianic figures that's just all human mythology to me.

Whatever mythology gets someone through this life is fine by me so long as it doesn't concern me in negative ways. I don't really believe in "Gods" per se. I don't believe in worshiping something just because it can create something far bigger than I can. Respect is is one thing, groveling is entirely another. I don't believe in original sin, redemption, revelations, any of that.

I believe we are all part of the creation, that "God" is in all of us every thing right down to a cellular level, constantly present. I don't believe I need to ask for anyone's intercession to talk directly to that which made us all. The idea that people actually believe that anything could ever come between us and that which created us that's just not something I can wrap my head around.

Let the TV preachers talk to their zombie deity. I suppose it can't hardly hurt, and if it makes them feel better, whatever, but me, I think it's all wasted air on their part. I think "God" is far bigger than any myth any human can ever dream up. No human can ever own that, speak for that, and only human hubris that makes us think we can.

08-06-2011, 03:33 PM	#1
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Rick Perry Teams Up With Jesus to Bring America Jobs Quote: Worried about the U.S. government's recently-downgraded credit rating? Don't be! Texas Governor and possible presidential candidate Rick Perry and 30,000 people just asked Jesus to help out with all of America's problems, and he should be here in an hour or so. The American Family Association—America's most gay-hating Christian club—and Perry, who regards the separation of church and state with the same contempt he does snakes, threw a big prayer party at Reliant Stadium in Houston to help America out with its troubles. And, while the more cynical among you might think of it as a kind of proxy campaign rally for Perry's likely presidential run, this bad boy was all about Jesus: "Lord, you are the source of every good thing," Mr. Perry said, as he bowed his head, closed his eyes and leaned into a microphone at Reliant Stadium here. "You are our only hope, and we stand before you today in awe of your power and in gratitude for your blessings, and humility for our sins. Father, our heart breaks for America. We see discord at home. We see fear in the marketplace. We see anger in the halls of government, and as a nation we have forgotten who made us, who protects us, who blesses us, and for that we cry out for your forgiveness." Rick Perry Teams Up With Jesus to Bring America Jobs

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08-06-2011, 08:11 PM	#2
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Consider the lilies of their field, and their PR departments...

08-06-2011, 08:24 PM	#3
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,482	I understand an atheist will never be president, but it still disappoints me.

08-07-2011, 11:42 AM	#4
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	I wonder what it's like to go through life thinking you know the mind of God.

08-07-2011, 11:51 AM	#5
Lex Madera Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Virginia, Austria, Ukraine Photos: Gallery Posts: 188	Yes, let's elect another former Governor of Texas to be president. It worked out so well last time. Full disclosure: Native-born Texan, lived there until I was 17. I consider myself a refugee from West Texas.

08-07-2011, 01:42 PM	#6
grhazelton Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jonesboro, GA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,972	Those who believe that god watches the fall of every sparrow have a real, if unacknowledged, problem; why is there evil in the world? The consideration of this is called I think theodicy, the attempt to reconcile god's omnipotence, onnipresence, omniscience, and benevolence with the existence of evil and misfortune,whether wrought by mankind or by natural disasters. I doubt that Brother Perry and his fundamentalist bretheren have ever given this much thought, beyond the fatuous catch-all statements: "There's a purpose for everything," or "It's all a part of God's plan, who are we to question?" As my wife once said to someone who offered this "consolation" to her, "Someday someone will tell me that and I'll slap them silly!" To me he also seems to be abrogating his and human responsibilty for both the flaws in our not-so-exceptional-any-longer country and for the clear-eyed effort to fix things. It's not in the bible, but truly god helps those who help themselves. And of course we have the problem of mounting such a spectacle with the at least implied endorsement of the state of Texas. This is I think a separation of church and state issue. I find it a deeply cynical ploy to wrap Perry's possible campaign for the nomination in a religious garb. For shame! Mr Jefferson and Mr Madison would be appalled at this cheap grandstanding.

08-07-2011, 01:54 PM	#7
Lex Madera Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Virginia, Austria, Ukraine Photos: Gallery Posts: 188	Originally posted by grhazelton And of course we have the problem of mounting such a spectacle with the at least implied endorsement of the state of Texas. This is I think a separation of church and state issue. I find it a deeply cynical ploy to wrap Perry's possible campaign for the nomination in a religious garb. For shame! Mr Jefferson and Mr Madison would be appalled at this cheap grandstanding. Amen brother! You can add John Adams to that list, as well. The founding fathers were never so pious and such bible-thumpers as some would have you believe.

08-07-2011, 02:37 PM	#8
grhazelton Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jonesboro, GA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,972	The majority of the Founding Fathers were deists! So many of the bible thumpers forget that Nature's God as appealed to in the Declaration is not the sort of god they appeal to, and there is no mention whatsoever of god in the Constitution. Many conflate the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. I like to think of the Declaration as a position paper, while the Constitution is the operating manual for the country. Probably too fine a distinction for the likes of Gov. Perry.

08-08-2011, 06:37 AM	#9
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady Consider the lilies of their field, and their PR departments... That same verse came to mind for me. Jesus probably assumed God provided the lillies unemployment or welfare with which to buy their fine clothes.

08-08-2011, 06:50 AM	#10
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Quote: I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just. I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty. I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. Thomas Jefferson...

08-08-2011, 01:48 PM	#11
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	One of the reasons I never felt the urge to join a mainstream religion is the ludicrous assumption such religions make that they can actually know what is in the mind of that which created us, speak for it et all. Humans can be too arrogant for words sometimes, I think. Like any of us can legally speak for something that can create universes, time et all. That Being must be as far above is as we are above amoebas when you think about it. Does an amoeba have the legitimate right to speak for us? Hardly. I've got nothing personal against the mainstream religions but I can't say I'm too inclined to let them speak for me. Whether Jesus existed as a man or not I can't say, but I'm not too into believing the whole god-man divine being viewpoint of him and I don't believe for one moment that some preacher guy on TV has a direct pipeline to our creator by virtue of believing in all that. That something bigger than us created us is pretty evident to me, pretty logical. I can't make planets, stars, universes, obviously, but the rest of it, the trappings of religion, all the rules, myths and supposed messianic figures that's just all human mythology to me. Whatever mythology gets someone through this life is fine by me so long as it doesn't concern me in negative ways. I don't really believe in "Gods" per se. I don't believe in worshiping something just because it can create something far bigger than I can. Respect is is one thing, groveling is entirely another. I don't believe in original sin, redemption, revelations, any of that. I believe we are all part of the creation, that "God" is in all of us every thing right down to a cellular level, constantly present. I don't believe I need to ask for anyone's intercession to talk directly to that which made us all. The idea that people actually believe that anything could ever come between us and that which created us that's just not something I can wrap my head around. Let the TV preachers talk to their zombie deity. I suppose it can't hardly hurt, and if it makes them feel better, whatever, but me, I think it's all wasted air on their part. I think "God" is far bigger than any myth any human can ever dream up. No human can ever own that, speak for that, and only human hubris that makes us think we can.