Balancing the Budget and Start Buying Locally

jogiba · 08-12-2011, 11:55 AM

The only thing I have spent my money on that was produced locally was produce , milk ,eggs , bread etc. The consumer electronic products that I purchased in the last thirty years or more were all made outside the US including my cameras and optics. If we can't even get the Republicans to agree to having the tax rate for the people making over $250,000 go back to the rate in the 90's then the chance of Apple , Pentax, Panasonic, Sony etc moving production to the US is zero.

mikemike · 08-12-2011, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by reeftool

I know that it isn't possible to buy Made in USA (or your own country) for everything but I look at where something is made and will choose homegrown products if I have a choice. I especially try to avoid high priced outsourced items.

I try to go based on more of who is being or at least trying to be equal trade partners. For example if I am buying electronics and the only choices are east asian products Korea > Taiwan > Japan > China

Originally posted by eddie1960

for Personal purchases I make a point of not only shopping local I also make a point of supporting small locally owned businesses. It definitely can cost me more money, but i haven't shopped a walmart or costco (or for that matter almost any big chain including the hardware guys) in several years. I don't purchase as much as i used to (less need as I age and have most items i need) though.

Local businesses are also more likely to deal while the big boxes only want to deal on financing. No thank, you, if I wanted a loan I would have gone to a bank I am shopping for _____. So I have been able to negotiate much better prices with local shops than you would get for exactly the same products at a big box store.

jeffkrol · 08-12-2011, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by mikemike

So I have been able to negotiate much better prices with local shops than you would get for exactly the same products at a big box store.

So you don't want to pay your fair share yet you want to feel good about yourself???

You realize your robbing the store owner.. He cannot come close to the wholesale price of a big box AND his working profit margin needs to be higher than a big box..

In other words the best you do for him is cash flow.. wouldn't doubt if he lost money on you (overall when ALL factors are considered) and just has to "make it up" on the next poor schlub..........

eddie1960 · 08-12-2011, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

The only thing I have spent my money on that was produced locally was produce , milk ,eggs , bread etc. The consumer electronic products that I purchased in the last thirty years or more were all made outside the US including my cameras and optics. If we can't even get the Republicans to agree to having the tax rate for the people making over $250,000 go back to the rate in the 90's then the chance of Apple , Pentax, Panasonic, Sony etc moving production to the US is zero.

the tax rate for people earning $250000 or more is lower than the tax rate of the working poor thanks to loopholes in many cases. because those exempted taxes trickle down don't you know

Electronics are the one area i haven't been able to buy local made for years (and even when i could in many cases the quality was dubious) the exception has only been audio equipment where i do own speakers and have owned amps and pre-amps made here (at a huge cost for the amps and pre-amps) I also owned for a period a beautifully made Canadian turntable (also at huge cost)
the last good 35mm camera to be made here as far as I know was the Canadian made Leica M4 (exempting the disposables)
There may be some large format product still made here I'd have to look. In reality there hasn't been any serious North American camera company in a long time (even most of the Kodak produced stuff in the last 30 years was made elsewhere)
For other electronics tvs that were made here died out when they raced to the bottom on quality to sell quantity

there are lots of manufacturing industries that aren't focused on consumer sales but we seem to have lost the ability to implement the manufacturing process here because for corporations the entire focus is short term gains and short term share price with no long term view

Frogfish · 08-12-2011, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by mikemike

I try to go based on more of who is being or at least trying to be equal trade partners. For example if I am buying electronics and the only choices are east asian products Korea > Taiwan > Japan > China

Hmmm - an alternative view.

Korea & Taiwan are big partners due to buying arms & weapons of destruction. Eat up untold billions in 'security' provided by the USA each year.

Japan - Established partners because of WWII rebuilding onwards when they had no choice. Have annihilated the US motor industry from outside the US and then moved in to finish the job.

China - without them buying billions of dollars worth of US Govt Bonds you'd have sunk without trace during the financial crisis.

Frogfish · 08-12-2011, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by eddie1960

A big portion of Western Europe is actually agrarian. France and Italy for example devote a large percentage of their land to agriculture. and while a good percentage is large scale farming, far more of it is small scale and local family farms (generally focused on high quality ...and higher priced production) than in North America

With the help of massive aid in the form of subsidies (and import quotas) from the national and local governments

eddie1960 · 08-12-2011, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Frogfish

With the help of massive aid in the form of subsidies (and import quotas) from the national and local governments

and it's not a bad thing IMO, it has given them a good source of local quality foods, which is not reliant on other countries and massive shipping systems for an end product that is not as good (or as nutritious for that matter)

mikemike · 08-12-2011, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

So you don't want to pay your fair share yet you want to feel good about yourself???

You realize your robbing the store owner.. He cannot come close to the wholesale price of a big box AND his working profit margin needs to be higher than a big box..

In other words the best you do for him is cash flow.. wouldn't doubt if he lost money on you (overall when ALL factors are considered) and just has to "make it up" on the next poor schlub..........

Oh, please if they don't want to sell it for the price I am willing to pay no one is forcing them to and I know where the door is. I haggle for EVERYTHING down to the price for shrimp with my fish monger. Sometimes you can't get anything sometimes you do, on big stuff you always get some concessions sometimes very big concessions, but as with anything practice makes perfect. I also make sure to send my friends to people who take good care of me and they are always happy to see me come back even though they know they are going to have to bust their butts to get a sale.

mikemike · 08-12-2011, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Frogfish

Hmmm - an alternative view.

Korea & Taiwan are big partners due to buying arms & weapons of destruction. Eat up untold billions in 'security' provided by the USA each year.

Japan - Established partners because of WWII rebuilding onwards when they had no choice. Have annihilated the US motor industry from outside the US and then moved in to finish the job.

China - without them buying billions of dollars worth of US Govt Bonds you'd have sunk without trace during the financial crisis.

At least the Koreans and Taiwanese buy their weapon systems from us instead of just stealing the designs of ours and lending us money to develop new stuff.

newarts · 08-12-2011, 12:54 PM

What about the alternative of realizing we live in a global community and buying from offshore developing sustainable sources is best in the long run (even if it depresses the local economy?)

jeffkrol · 08-12-2011, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by mikemike

Oh, please if they don't want to sell it for the price I am willing to pay no one is forcing them to and I know where the door is. I haggle for EVERYTHING down to the price for shrimp with my fish monger. Sometimes you can't get anything sometimes you do, on big stuff you always get some concessions sometimes very big concessions, but as with anything practice makes perfect. I also make sure to send my friends to people who take good care of me and they are always happy to see me come back even though they know they are going to have to bust their butts to get a sale.

As an employee of a local luxury item store I really have to say you are one of our worst nightmares.. You think everyone is overcharging and getting filthy rich on "your" labor..
Personally I'd prefer you stick to buying "on line".......

And yes people will sell you things with a smile too. THAT is part of the game. Maybe one of your friends is not soo err.. frugal.

. Just don't be too surprised by the things they may say behind your back......... I take it your local pizza delivery places have you "tagged" as well...

In your defense (not that it's REALLY needed) haggling is quite popular in the 3rd world......

Generally I prefer to buy on line than insult a SMB owner..Then again maybe all your stores are truly gouging in the first place....... though in my area that is less common (as long as there is a bit of competition) and not a tourist area..

GeneV · 08-12-2011, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by mikemike

Oh, please if they don't want to sell it for the price I am willing to pay no one is forcing them to and I know where the door is. I haggle for EVERYTHING down to the price for shrimp with my fish monger. Sometimes you can't get anything sometimes you do, on big stuff you always get some concessions sometimes very big concessions, but as with anything practice makes perfect. I also make sure to send my friends to people who take good care of me and they are always happy to see me come back even though they know they are going to have to bust their butts to get a sale.

So, the storekeeper can lose money on every sale, but you will send him all your friends so he can make it up on volume.

Why don't you try that at Costco or Sam's, and see how far you get. Better get used to it, because that is all you will have.

**luftfluss** · 08-12-2011, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by newarts

What about the alternative of realizing we live in a global community and buying from offshore developing sustainable sources is best in the long run (even if it depresses the local economy?)

Many Americans have decided that viewpoint is antithetical to patriotism.

GeneV · 08-13-2011, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by newarts

What about the alternative of realizing we live in a global community and buying from offshore developing sustainable sources is best in the long run (even if it depresses the local economy?)

If the sustainable sources can be confirmed, I have no problem with it. The trouble is that offshore sources are more often used to do do just the opposite.

GeneV · 08-13-2011, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

and it's not a bad thing IMO, it has given them a good source of local quality foods, which is not reliant on other countries and massive shipping systems for an end product that is not as good (or as nutritious for that matter)

For small farmers, especially, I tend to agree. There are areas where the "market" does not accurately reflect the cost of a good to society.

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08-12-2011, 11:55 AM	#16
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	The only thing I have spent my money on that was produced locally was produce , milk ,eggs , bread etc. The consumer electronic products that I purchased in the last thirty years or more were all made outside the US including my cameras and optics. If we can't even get the Republicans to agree to having the tax rate for the people making over $250,000 go back to the rate in the 90's then the chance of Apple , Pentax, Panasonic, Sony etc moving production to the US is zero.

08-12-2011, 12:00 PM	#17
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by reeftool I know that it isn't possible to buy Made in USA (or your own country) for everything but I look at where something is made and will choose homegrown products if I have a choice. I especially try to avoid high priced outsourced items. I try to go based on more of who is being or at least trying to be equal trade partners. For example if I am buying electronics and the only choices are east asian products Korea > Taiwan > Japan > China Originally posted by eddie1960 for Personal purchases I make a point of not only shopping local I also make a point of supporting small locally owned businesses. It definitely can cost me more money, but i haven't shopped a walmart or costco (or for that matter almost any big chain including the hardware guys) in several years. I don't purchase as much as i used to (less need as I age and have most items i need) though. Local businesses are also more likely to deal while the big boxes only want to deal on financing. No thank, you, if I wanted a loan I would have gone to a bank I am shopping for _____. So I have been able to negotiate much better prices with local shops than you would get for exactly the same products at a big box store.

08-12-2011, 12:09 PM	#18
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by mikemike So I have been able to negotiate much better prices with local shops than you would get for exactly the same products at a big box store. So you don't want to pay your fair share yet you want to feel good about yourself??? You realize your robbing the store owner.. He cannot come close to the wholesale price of a big box AND his working profit margin needs to be higher than a big box.. In other words the best you do for him is cash flow.. wouldn't doubt if he lost money on you (overall when ALL factors are considered) and just has to "make it up" on the next poor schlub..........

08-12-2011, 12:10 PM	#19
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by jogiba The only thing I have spent my money on that was produced locally was produce , milk ,eggs , bread etc. The consumer electronic products that I purchased in the last thirty years or more were all made outside the US including my cameras and optics. If we can't even get the Republicans to agree to having the tax rate for the people making over $250,000 go back to the rate in the 90's then the chance of Apple , Pentax, Panasonic, Sony etc moving production to the US is zero. the tax rate for people earning $250000 or more is lower than the tax rate of the working poor thanks to loopholes in many cases. because those exempted taxes trickle down don't you know Electronics are the one area i haven't been able to buy local made for years (and even when i could in many cases the quality was dubious) the exception has only been audio equipment where i do own speakers and have owned amps and pre-amps made here (at a huge cost for the amps and pre-amps) I also owned for a period a beautifully made Canadian turntable (also at huge cost) the last good 35mm camera to be made here as far as I know was the Canadian made Leica M4 (exempting the disposables) There may be some large format product still made here I'd have to look. In reality there hasn't been any serious North American camera company in a long time (even most of the Kodak produced stuff in the last 30 years was made elsewhere) For other electronics tvs that were made here died out when they raced to the bottom on quality to sell quantity there are lots of manufacturing industries that aren't focused on consumer sales but we seem to have lost the ability to implement the manufacturing process here because for corporations the entire focus is short term gains and short term share price with no long term view

08-12-2011, 12:32 PM	#20
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	Originally posted by mikemike I try to go based on more of who is being or at least trying to be equal trade partners. For example if I am buying electronics and the only choices are east asian products Korea > Taiwan > Japan > China Hmmm - an alternative view. Korea & Taiwan are big partners due to buying arms & weapons of destruction. Eat up untold billions in 'security' provided by the USA each year. Japan - Established partners because of WWII rebuilding onwards when they had no choice. Have annihilated the US motor industry from outside the US and then moved in to finish the job. China - without them buying billions of dollars worth of US Govt Bonds you'd have sunk without trace during the financial crisis.

08-12-2011, 12:38 PM	#21
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	Originally posted by eddie1960 A big portion of Western Europe is actually agrarian. France and Italy for example devote a large percentage of their land to agriculture. and while a good percentage is large scale farming, far more of it is small scale and local family farms (generally focused on high quality ...and higher priced production) than in North America With the help of massive aid in the form of subsidies (and import quotas) from the national and local governments

08-12-2011, 12:50 PM	#22
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Frogfish With the help of massive aid in the form of subsidies (and import quotas) from the national and local governments and it's not a bad thing IMO, it has given them a good source of local quality foods, which is not reliant on other countries and massive shipping systems for an end product that is not as good (or as nutritious for that matter)

08-12-2011, 12:51 PM	#23
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by jeffkrol So you don't want to pay your fair share yet you want to feel good about yourself??? You realize your robbing the store owner.. He cannot come close to the wholesale price of a big box AND his working profit margin needs to be higher than a big box.. In other words the best you do for him is cash flow.. wouldn't doubt if he lost money on you (overall when ALL factors are considered) and just has to "make it up" on the next poor schlub.......... Oh, please if they don't want to sell it for the price I am willing to pay no one is forcing them to and I know where the door is. I haggle for EVERYTHING down to the price for shrimp with my fish monger. Sometimes you can't get anything sometimes you do, on big stuff you always get some concessions sometimes very big concessions, but as with anything practice makes perfect. I also make sure to send my friends to people who take good care of me and they are always happy to see me come back even though they know they are going to have to bust their butts to get a sale.

08-12-2011, 12:53 PM	#24
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by Frogfish Hmmm - an alternative view. Korea & Taiwan are big partners due to buying arms & weapons of destruction. Eat up untold billions in 'security' provided by the USA each year. Japan - Established partners because of WWII rebuilding onwards when they had no choice. Have annihilated the US motor industry from outside the US and then moved in to finish the job. China - without them buying billions of dollars worth of US Govt Bonds you'd have sunk without trace during the financial crisis. At least the Koreans and Taiwanese buy their weapon systems from us instead of just stealing the designs of ours and lending us money to develop new stuff.

08-12-2011, 12:54 PM	#25
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	What about the alternative of realizing we live in a global community and buying from offshore developing sustainable sources is best in the long run (even if it depresses the local economy?)

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08-12-2011, 01:25 PM	#26
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by mikemike Oh, please if they don't want to sell it for the price I am willing to pay no one is forcing them to and I know where the door is. I haggle for EVERYTHING down to the price for shrimp with my fish monger. Sometimes you can't get anything sometimes you do, on big stuff you always get some concessions sometimes very big concessions, but as with anything practice makes perfect. I also make sure to send my friends to people who take good care of me and they are always happy to see me come back even though they know they are going to have to bust their butts to get a sale. As an employee of a local luxury item store I really have to say you are one of our worst nightmares.. You think everyone is overcharging and getting filthy rich on "your" labor.. Personally I'd prefer you stick to buying "on line"....... And yes people will sell you things with a smile too. THAT is part of the game. Maybe one of your friends is not soo err.. frugal. . Just don't be too surprised by the things they may say behind your back......... I take it your local pizza delivery places have you "tagged" as well... In your defense (not that it's REALLY needed) haggling is quite popular in the 3rd world...... Generally I prefer to buy on line than insult a SMB owner..Then again maybe all your stores are truly gouging in the first place....... though in my area that is less common (as long as there is a bit of competition) and not a tourist area..

08-12-2011, 02:09 PM	#27
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by mikemike Oh, please if they don't want to sell it for the price I am willing to pay no one is forcing them to and I know where the door is. I haggle for EVERYTHING down to the price for shrimp with my fish monger. Sometimes you can't get anything sometimes you do, on big stuff you always get some concessions sometimes very big concessions, but as with anything practice makes perfect. I also make sure to send my friends to people who take good care of me and they are always happy to see me come back even though they know they are going to have to bust their butts to get a sale. So, the storekeeper can lose money on every sale, but you will send him all your friends so he can make it up on volume. Why don't you try that at Costco or Sam's, and see how far you get. Better get used to it, because that is all you will have.

08-12-2011, 03:57 PM	#28
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618	Originally posted by newarts What about the alternative of realizing we live in a global community and buying from offshore developing sustainable sources is best in the long run (even if it depresses the local economy?) Many Americans have decided that viewpoint is antithetical to patriotism.

08-13-2011, 04:28 AM	#29
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by newarts What about the alternative of realizing we live in a global community and buying from offshore developing sustainable sources is best in the long run (even if it depresses the local economy?) If the sustainable sources can be confirmed, I have no problem with it. The trouble is that offshore sources are more often used to do do just the opposite.

08-13-2011, 04:31 AM	#30
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by eddie1960 and it's not a bad thing IMO, it has given them a good source of local quality foods, which is not reliant on other countries and massive shipping systems for an end product that is not as good (or as nutritious for that matter) For small farmers, especially, I tend to agree. There are areas where the "market" does not accurately reflect the cost of a good to society.