[kenafein]

I understand not trusting our government in particular, but that is a separate issue. We need to hold our government accountable. However, where they will save the money is controlling what medical providers can charge for a service. For example, my wife had an ultrasound and the medical provider's bill showed a charge for over 500 dollars. I researched and the cost should have been $200. The current system is already inefficient; it can't get much worse. If our government can't provide what so many others do, then that needs to be addressed as a separate issue. We know it can be done.

[jeffkrol]

I have to admit, it looks good on paper doesn't it? I cannot argue with what you are saying above if it were to actually work out that way. The problem is that nobody and I mean nobody can waste your (taxpayers') money like the Govt. In my line of work I see it every day, day-in and day-out. Now, you might argue that you'd rather see the Govt. waste a bunch of your money than see a "greedy" corporation get it. I'd rather see less Govt. involvement in all of our lives.

So you prefer to have ins. co.'s dictating what is medically necessary, who is in your "group" ect..????
It DUMBFOUNDS me what people put up with and have to waste tons of their time dealing w/ ins. companies.. I worked both ends (ins and hospital billing)
WASTE is it's middle name........... paper paper everywhere.. who covers what, are the forms filled out ect...
As to wasting taxpayers money.. how's that banking system treating you..... no wasted money there over the past 3 years..

Yeesh.........

you've been CONNED for decades.........

Let me paint a small historic picture of how things work (in general)

hosp claim comes in.. goes to BC..Physicians lab ect split off goes to BS, then afther they are done goes to Maj. Med. dept which processes the "rest" . Any errors by BC or BS get sent back to them..
Al l the while many forms were sent by each dept to insure compliance w/ coverage, eligibility, other coverage, subrogation ect......

won't even get into the hospital part, scrambling around for cards, signing wavers , checking on PRE-APPROVAL forms from the ins.,picking up checks/payment at discharge..

EFFICIENT!!!! Bwahahahahahahahahhahaha

[normhead]

"nobody can waste your (taxpayers') money like the Govt"

Actually compared to Canada, nobody wastes your money like free enterprise. It's one of the great myths of the Right WIng. IN fact, the only diffence between public and free enterprise is in the public sector, the individual gets a say. IN my private phone system, no one gives a crap about what I think, they do what is good for them. For example, last year I bought a college football package..$50. This year it's included with a college basketball package, $100. I don't want the basketball. Free enterprise, using it's monolpoly to affect my life. I'm going to protest this. I'm going to give up my subscription, and just watch basic cable this year. But the good old free market will cost me a viewing season. If government did something like this , there would be huge protests, politicians would be getting involved.. blah blah blah, with free enterprise, no one cares. Bell will do what they want, if the new system makes them more money they'll stick with it, if it doesn't they'll go back to the old way. No one cares about me. It's worse than communism. It's monopoly capitalism, the thing that caused communism.

[aurele]

It's monopoly capitalism

Some would say :"it's America !"

It's monopoly capitalism, the thing that caused communism.

Hummm ... and, what's "that thing" ? a creepy hand living into the Adams Family ?

[GeneV]

I have to admit, it looks good on paper doesn't it? I cannot argue with what you are saying above if it were to actually work out that way. The problem is that nobody and I mean nobody can waste your (taxpayers') money like the Govt. In my line of work I see it every day, day-in and day-out. Now, you might argue that you'd rather see the Govt. waste a bunch of your money than see a "greedy" corporation get it. I'd rather see less Govt. involvement in all of our lives.

I think most of us would rather see less government involvement, unless there is a real need. I'm sure there was a debate some time in history about where fire departments and roads were good areas for government involvement. This problem has been around for years, and it is not getting one bit better.

The status quo offers the worst of both worlds. As a country, we use less health care and pay more for it. Medscape: Medscape Access What makes the US health care system so expensive – Introduction | The Incidental Economist With our largely private system, our government already spends more per capita for healthcare than Canada, the UK or Australia, which have universal healthcare. The problem is the price. Core Health Indicators

[Biro]

I'm in the financial news business and our company (which by no means can be considered a bastion of liberalism) did a study and lengthy story about the efficiency of private health insurers vs. Medicare. It turns about the "overhead" expenses at private insurers take about 20-30 cents of every dollar that's paid to them in premiums, vs. about 4 cents at Medicare. Which means, if the health-care insurance premium that's taken out of your paycheck were converted to a Medicare withholding - or tax if you like - you could buy significantly more coverage under a "Medicare for all" health plan for the same amount of money. The numbers are there.

And we haven't even begun to delve into the benefits of nationalized health care for the competitiveness of U.S. companies. Or how about the boost to overall productivity from a healthy population? The U.S. is already falling well behind much of the developed world in many areas... and that trend is continuing to accelerate. Unchecked, we risk waking up one day and suddenly realizing we live in a very large, third-world nation.

I understand those who have concerns about government involvement - but some people automatically foam at the mouth when the word "government" is mentioned and erroneously take as truth that the government never gets anything right and that private enterprise will always do it better. These same people often confuse social safety net programs with hard-core "socialism" and "communism." These people need to pause, look deep inside themselves and ask where this is really coming from because that facts don't support them.

Private enterprise and private markets are great. But they're not the automatic panacea for all situations (can anyone say "financial crisis?"). The fact is, sometimes we need the power and size of government to pull off certain major tasks. And some government programs work quite well. That doesn't mean we don't keep a sharp eye on government and demand full transparency and disclosure. But, believe it or not, sometimes Washington is really trying to help and really gets it right.

[jeffkrol]

I'm in the financial news business and our company (which by no means can be considered a bastion of liberalism) did a study and lengthy story about the efficiency of private health insurers vs. Medicare. It turns about the "overhead" expenses at private insurers take about 20-30 cents of every dollar that's paid to them in premiums, vs. about 4 cents at Medicare.

Lets add a snippet from another thread.........I believe that was older than your study?

Himmelstein said that administrative costs accounted for one cent of every dollar spent on healthcare in Canada, but 15 cents for every dollar in America.

[GeneV]

Lets add a snippet from another thread.........I believe that was older than your study?

Himmelstein said that administrative costs accounted for one cent of every dollar spent on healthcare in Canada, but 15 cents for every dollar in America.

Actually, those would both make sense since "every dollar in America" could include an average of dollars at 4% OH from Medicare and 20-30% from private insurance.

[aurele]

I understand those who have concerns about government involvement - but some people automatically foam at the mouth when the word "government" is mentioned and erroneously take as truth that the government never gets anything right and that private enterprise will always do it better. These same people often confuse social safety net programs with hard-core "socialism" and "communism."

This is a very good analysis of the US modern society.

Here in France, Social securit cost 450 billion per years, tax cover 430 billion. The lack of 20 billions are du to the 9% of unemployement. If this % go back to around 7%, the 20 bilions will be back.
the only thing US lacks for a basic social (i mean not socialist, but just equity between people) system is some political will. A bad time for politicians, but a real need for the US.