[GeneV]

A while back, Wal-Mart and other large merchants supported consumer protection regulations which would limit the fees banks could charge merchants for debit card use. After the regulations, those fees will end up being about $.42 per transation--not bad considering no credit is extended, no card dividends are paid, and all processing is electronic.

I noticed that as a result of the legislation limiting merchant fees, my current "Big 4" bank will now charge me $3.00 per month for POS transactions with a debit card. The articles describing this don't say that the banks are losing money on the fees they can still charge per transaction, but that they just want to make up the profit they were getting before. The good news and the real benefit of these regulations is that now I know what claws the bank had in the transactions. I just spoke yesterday with the president of a local bank who has no intention of imposing such charges. He'll get my business.

[mikemike]

I just spoke yesterday with the president of a local bank who has no intention of imposing such charges. He'll get my business.

Also consider credit unions, they are even more consumer friendly than local banks. I personally don't like debit cards b/c they don't offer the loss protection that credit cards do and because I like to keep my money in a MMA (which barely pays anything these days) which limits the amount of monthly transactions. If you pay off your balances in full every month you never have to pay finance charges and get to keep a share of the fees they charge the vendors as rewards. I loved an old MBNA card which had a bill pay feature which let me pay off my other credit cards with that card and treated the transaction like a regular charge instead of a balance transfer. This let me kite the interest for an extra month and consolidate all of my monthly bills onto one transaction and always keep all of my cash in the MMA, now I have to keep moving chunks of money to my checking since BoA caught on to this trick with old MBNA cards earlier this year.

[GeneV]

Also consider credit unions, they are even more consumer friendly than local banks. I personally don't like debit cards b/c they don't offer the loss protection that credit cards do and because I like to keep my money in a MMA (which barely pays anything these days) which limits the amount of monthly transactions. If you pay off your balances in full every month you never have to pay finance charges and get to keep a share of the fees they charge the vendors as rewards. I loved an old MBNA card which had a bill pay feature which let me pay off my other credit cards with that card and treated the transaction like a regular charge instead of a balance transfer. This let me kite the interest for an extra month and consolidate all of my monthly bills onto one transaction and always keep all of my cash in the MMA, now I have to keep moving chunks of money to my checking since BoA caught on to this trick with old MBNA cards earlier this year.

You are paying for those cards in many more ways. Card fees are added to the cost of everything you buy, just like it was for POS before the change in regulation. This comes home most directly when I pay my company taxes to the state. The state passes the credit card fees through, so I pay by electronic check.

There is currently an antitrust lawsuit on these fees pending by merchants, and we will see if it goes anywhere. However, a regulation which allowed merchants to do what the state does would be a good start.

[mikemike]

You are paying for those cards in many more ways. Card fees are added to the cost of everything you buy, just like it was for POS before the change in regulation.

I know they jack their prices up a couple percent to cover the card fees, thats why I always follow up the question, "do you take american express?" with "do you offer a discount for paying cash?" Its the invisible hand at work.

[GeneV]

I know they jack their prices up a couple percent to cover the card fees, thats why I always follow up the question, "do you take american express?" with "do you offer a discount for paying cash?" Its the invisible hand at work.

Bank agreements with merchants tie one invisible hand behind the back, because they generally prohibit them from cash discounts. That is what I am trying to prevent with a law or regulation. If it weren't for the monopoly aspect of having only a few credit card systems, competition might take care of this.

Amex fees to merchants have always been some of the highest.

[shooz]

Competition?
Now,now, you know that's not the way of "the invisible hand".
Monopoly is it's way.

[mikemike]

Amex fees to merchants have always been some of the highest.

I know which is why I lead with that

If it is someone who knows the businesses cost the answer is usually "no, they charge too much" or it is "yes" with undertones of resentment for how much they charge, either way it is an opening for the cash discount question which many businesses do agree to (or at least they will throw in a little lagniappe for paying cash). I have heard about the prohibiting discounts but I have also seen plenty of gas stations (especially truck stops) advertise different prices for cash and credit on their billboard signs.

[jeffkrol]

Also consider credit unions, they are even more consumer friendly than local banks.

Too bad our illustrious gov. just past "business friendly" (i.e. bank friendly) legislation to make it easy to convert a cred. union to a bank without compensating the members for their "share" as is currently a necessity..........

Sorry, side note

The credit union league had said the legislation too easily allows the conversion of member-owned credit unions to shareholder-owned banks. The league says the legislation is unnecessary and simply a Wisconsin Bankers Association attempt to kill credit unions.

Walker leaves credit union provision in budget bill

All hail the Oligarchs.. screw "the people"........

The new law, which the league called “radical”, permits direct conversion of a CU to a bank by bypassing the mutual structure and drastically streamlining the process on member voting and sharply reducing disclosure and communication rules.

The league charged the law permits insider transactions and self dealing by CU boards and includes a “symbolic conversion vote with no requirement that members be adequately informed so they know the impact of the charter changes.”

The law “permits insiders to profit personally starting the day after the conversion” and the law does not “require that directors disclose clearly, conspicuously and before a member vote any economic benefit directors and senior management” would receive from a conversion, the league said.

The law is so “radical” that “only one other state allows direct conversion to a stock bank while “49 states do not allow it because it is nearly impossible for credit union executives and directors to faithfully execute their fiduciary duty,” the league said.

In expressing “disappointment” in the Republican governor for not using his line-item power, the league charged that it was wrong for “complex financial institution chartering policy” to suddenly wind up in a bill related to state finances.

The Wisconsin Bankers Association, which for two years has attempted to pass a conversion law, hailed the passage contending the conversion provision simply gives CUs a structure choice and that it represented a healthy step for Wisconsin financial institutions.

Online Only: Wisconsin CUs Stunned By Passage of Conversion Law

[shooz]

And the invisible hand cried out........................................!
" All hail to the debt, for the debt creates profit, and profit will create more debt!
Long live the debt!!"

[Tom S.]

Too bad our illustrious gov. just past "business friendly" (i.e. bank friendly) legislation to make it easy to convert a cred. union to a bank without compensating the members for their "share" as is currently a necessity..........

Sorry, side note


Walker leaves credit union provision in budget bill

All hail the Oligarchs.. screw "the people"........


Online Only: Wisconsin CUs Stunned By Passage of Conversion Law

Just so you know, that only applies to state chartered credit unions, not federally chartered ones.

[thazooo]

Same here on the $3.00 fee, I won't be as polite, it was Wells Fargo. They will also be charging a $7.00 service fee to my free checking. I can over come this fee if I leave $1500.00 in my account. I found a simpler solution, I closed the account and put it all in a small Regional Bank
Should have let them go down the tubes in stead of a Bail Out.

[GeneV]

I know which is why I lead with that

I have heard about the prohibiting discounts but I have also seen plenty of gas stations (especially truck stops) advertise different prices for cash and credit on their billboard signs.

The prohibition is real, and it is honored the vast majority of the time. You can't just pooh-pooh this as though it were a minor thing.

The difference between cash and credit at gas stations was usually for their own credit.

[GeneV]

Same here on the $3.00 fee, I won't be as polite, it was Wells Fargo. They will also be charging a $7.00 service fee to my free checking. I can over come this fee if I leave $1500.00 in my account. I found a simpler solution, I closed the account and put it all in a small Regional Bank
Should have let them go down the tubes in stead of a Bail Out.

Mine was WF as well. These banks act as though they are entitled to skim a certain percentage off the top of all commerce. In past years, when they actually made their money on loans, having money pass though their bank as a deposit which they could then loan was considered to be enough benefit.

[jeffkrol]

Just so you know, that only applies to state chartered credit unions, not federally chartered ones.

How does that make it any better??????

Most state cred. unions are state based. few are fed........

IF you have a defense of this I'd be curious to hear it.....

CREDIT UNIONS ARE MEMBER-OWNED FINANCIAL COOPERATIVES


Credit unions are strong and active members of our state’s cooperative business community and partners for Wisconsin agriculture because they are member-owned financial cooperatives where the profits belong to the membership. Most credit unions have chosen to send their profits back to the member-owners through lower loan rates and higher dividend rates on savings. A number of state credit unions, like many members of the broader cooperative community, also annually send patronage payments to members.

Most Wisconsin credit unions are state-chartered and covered by state law. Only a few are federally-chartered and are, therefore, primarily covered by federal law.

Wisconsin’s credit unions are under attack in the legislature and need your immediate help Agri-View: Capitol News

[magkelly]

I never did get why they feel entitled to monthly fees. I mean they basically get to use your money and only pay you a pittance of interest on it. I'm supposed to pay them now to use my money? That kind of defeats the whole point of having a bank account and getting interest in the first place. I might as well keep my money hidden somewhere. I won't be making any money on keeping it in the bank, and frankly at this point, I think it's maybe safer stashed somewhere at home...