[Chwisch87]

"Some more inconvenient questions:"

Here is the supposedly inconvenient answers

"Why are these illegals in the USA - what is the history behind this phenomenon?"

Every society has always had a need for a cheap labour class that will work for wages lower than that of the general populous.

"Who is hiring all these illegals?"

Anyone who wants cheap labor. This is usually centered around the agriculture business. Most animal processing work is done by workers who do not have a green card.

"Why are they hiring illegals in lieu of Americans OR why aren't unemployed Americans taking back these jobs?"

Because Americans currently have a set standard of living and most of the unemployed are not desperate enough to take these jobs. With the slow down in the economy we have seen many of these workers return home to central america.

"What would happen to the US economy if ALL illegals were rounded up and sent back?"

It would basically stop. Any society, large or small has always had a need for a labour class. It keeps prices low and done correctly generally benefits society.

"Who would do the jobs that they have been doing - and at those salaries - and let us have some actual names and volunteers instead of those comfortable, brush the problem away "Americans would come rushing in to take those jobs......." type of answer - which we all know intuitively is a lie."

Americans expect to be paid at least 30000 dollars a year for a full time job. Even at that level, its very hard to live what many would consider the current american standard of living.

If you want to look at Europe right now and the riots they are having... that's all because of their failed immigration policies. America is actually good at assimilation of new immigrants. Within about one generation they are thoroughly Americanized. What is wrong with that?? You just have to look at France and you're telling me you want to copy their immigration policies? Sheer stupidity.

If you want to stop illegal immigration? Its pretty easy but you won't like it... or shouldn't on principal. But every wage paying activity would have to be registered by the state and thoroughly audited to insure they are paying a high wage per hour to make it impossible to higher people that won't work for a lower wage. On the grand political circle, this doesn't make you all that far from the far left with their "living wage" ... oh how people come together lol.

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Last edited by Chwisch87; 08-22-2011 at 04:16 AM.

[GeneV]

That is half true, but some of these jobs actually did pay the equivalent of $30k per year before immigration got to the point it is now. Meat packing and construction had unionized to the point where people made a decent living at these jobs, and citizens were happy to get them. With the addition of workers who are in no position to exercise their legal rights, meat packing is heading back to "the Jungle" it was in the 19th century.

[Chwisch87]

That is half true, but some of these jobs actually did pay the equivalent of $30k per year before immigration got to the point it is now. Meat packing and construction had unionized to the point where people made a decent living at these jobs, and citizens were happy to get them. With the addition of workers who are in no position to exercise their legal rights, meat packing is heading back to "the Jungle" it was in the 19th century.

Yes of course. Absolutely true.

Under Ronald Reagan is become policy to the US government to be anti-union. The Air traffic controllers strike that was broken under Reagan was the first time in decades that something like that had actually happened. It has had profound influence on American working environment. Companies now feel free to bust unions without having to worry about angering the government. As corporations are now far more wealthy, they are able to wait out any union without having to employ the old strike breaking tactics of old either. So everyone kind of all sees it as "fair".

It was of course the natural progression of labor. As they saved money over time and their standard of living increased, the unions demanded a wage comparable to their current standard.

WE are not heading back to the jungle we are AT the jungle lol.

[stevewig]

"Some more inconvenient questions:"
...........................If you want to stop illegal immigration? Its pretty easy but you won't like it... or shouldn't on principal. But every wage paying activity would have to be registered by the state and thoroughly audited to insure they are paying a high wage per hour to make it impossible to higher people that won't work for a lower wage. On the grand political circle, this doesn't make you all that far from the far left with their "living wage" ... oh how people come together lol.

Thanks for your detailed response to my rhetorical (by intent) questions.

You lead us with your words - step by step - to the same conclusion that I have made, mentally.

Most people hate so called "Illegals" (or any substitute word meaning the same thing) without rationalizing to themselves why these people exist and what would happen if they ceased to exist. It is so easy to mentally dehumanize the poorest members of society, particularly when they are "Illegal".

[Ratmagiclady]

Thanks for your detailed response to my rhetorical (by intent) questions.

You lead us with your words - step by step - to the same conclusion that I have made, mentally.

Most people hate so called "Illegals" (or any substitute word meaning the same thing) without rationalizing to themselves why these people exist and what would happen if they ceased to exist. It is so easy to mentally dehumanize the poorest members of society, particularly when they are "Illegal".

It's the *employers, * anyway. 'Supply-side' economics, right? They treat work like somethign *they* give to the workers, and they don't want to make jobs any good unless things are worse where the migrant labor came from: ergo.... They want a labor force that gets no benefits or living wage, that they can abuse or have the gummint deport if they demand better.

[eddie1960]

If I tried that stunt in most countries in Europe, simply showing up and staying illegally, they'd catch my arse, probably fine me or jail me for a while, then deport me forthwith. Yet, any immigrant who comes here, unless he or she is a convicted felon, can now make a grab for American citizenship regardless of how legal his or her entry into this country was?

.

I don't think so
I know many people who have spent more than a decade in England. If I'm not mistake England has had an amnesty in the past. So has Canada. Spain had one in 2005 for 700,000 people

[shooz]

Well, you have to understand. Right wing talk radio and TV here in America is rather insidious.
It passes more lies than satan himself, yet certain factions here listen intently.

[eddie1960]

Well, you have to understand. Right wing talk radio and TV here in America is rather insidious.
It passes more lies than satan himself, yet certain factions here listen intently.

all your news and radio is right wing isn't it
Even PBS and NPR seem pretty right to me sometimes

Joking aside i'm all too aware of it as our airwaves are flooded with American channels. For news though i rarely watch an American channel. Usually CBC or BBC
I watch Fox News for comedy

[shooz]

Can't blame ya for that.

[eddie1960]

Can't blame ya for that.

Well between Sarah, Michelle and Perry it's like watching the 3 stooges

[wildman]

It is so easy to mentally dehumanize the poorest members of society, particularly when they are "Illegal".

Yes.
Take it one more step back - they are "illegal" here primarily because they they come from the class of the poor and powerless in their home country in the first place.

Essentially they are illegal because they are poor.

[GeneV]

Our governor wants to make it harder for immigrants to get a driver's license. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/us/24licenses.html?hp We'll see how this goes over for her fellow Republicans in this state.

[jeffkrol]

“We don’t have any idea what kind of individuals we are giving these licenses to,” Ms. Martinez said in an interview, suggesting that other states may also be adversely affected by New Mexico’s approach...........................


Hmm did Gacey ,Dahmer, Manson and a host of other "characters" have a drivers license..............?????????????

Sorry, statements like that are Sooooooo ironic........

[GeneV]

“We don’t have any idea what kind of individuals we are giving these licenses to,” Ms. Martinez said in an interview, suggesting that other states may also be adversely affected by New Mexico’s approach...........................


Hmm did Gacey ,Dahmer, Manson and a host of other "characters" have a drivers license..............?????????????

Sorry, statements like that are Sooooooo ironic........

Yeah. I always thought a driver's license just meant you could drive.

[seacapt]

Yeah. I always thought a driver's license just meant you could drive.

That would be true if they weren't the most commonly accepted form of ID.
When travelling to the Bahamas or Canada a valid state drivers license is considered as an accepted form of proof of US citizenship. 48 states have a different type of driving permit for non citizens vs US citizens.
Martinez just wants your state license to have legitimacy.