Is it wrong to ask...?

SlickYamaha · 08-22-2011, 06:50 PM

This is a strange question to ask, but let me give some background... I am no professional (Proven by all the topics I post on the "Q&A" Section) But I do like to do some family portraits, senior portraits, or baby photos for friends and family. Its not something I do for a living, but I do put it out as a "business" when people ask. Anyway, before my mother retired, one of the teachers she worked with had a daughter who is a photographer. She is quite known around town, and does some really amazing work. I do not know her personally, but I am friends with her mother as well. I have remarked several times about how beautiful her photographs are, and we have chatted a bit, but other than that, she wouldnt notice me on the street if we passed eachother.
I have always wanted to know how she creates some of her photos, what type of lenses she uses, technique, post processing, etc.. But I feel its rather tacky to ask. We take the same type of photos, but hers are quite something to look at. Now I know with practice comes talent, but helpful hints dont hurt either.

So just wondering, if a "competitor" asked you about your photos, how you created them, etc, would you find it flattering, or tacky?

*I should say, I dont want to "copy" off of her at all, I just would like to learn some new ideas for improving my work.

Clicker · 08-22-2011, 07:18 PM

No not all i know of many pro photographers who share knowledge not only to inform but to form future working relationships especially when a helping hand is needed. Successful working photographers network really well, they understand "there is really nothing new in photography, just new photographers"

network

joe.penn · 08-22-2011, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by SlickYamaha

So just wondering, if a "competitor" asked you about your photos, how you created them, etc, would you find it flattering, or tacky?

This is funny - funny as we all here on the forums ask everyday about other peoples photos and how they created them; so no I do not find it tacky as we all do it here everyday.

---

Jodokast96 · 08-23-2011, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by joe.penn

This is funny - funny as we all here on the forums ask everyday about other peoples photos and how they created them; so no I do not find it tacky as we all do it here everyday.

---

The wonder of the internet. I get it though. It's so much easier to ask a "stranger" than someone face to face I suppose.

SlickYamaha · 08-23-2011, 02:47 AM

Its not so much that, but that none of us are competing for work. The difference is that we both live in the same area. So if I take pointers from her, she is potentially losing clients because of advise she gave me. If I take pointers from someone 9 states away, its a no big deal. Se what I'm saying...?

MRRiley · 08-23-2011, 02:56 AM

The main question you need to ask yourself is... Are the people who you are taking photos for reasonably likely (aka will they pay her prices) to use her services if you didn't shoot them?

If the answer is NO, then you are not taking any clients away from her and it would be fair to ask her about her techniques or to look at your portfolio and give you some feedback/pointers.

If the answer is YES, then you should not bother her beyond striking up a general conversation about photography. If she then chooses to give you pointers then that is her decision.

Mike

TaoMaas · 08-23-2011, 04:50 AM

I think it depends upon the photographer whether they'd be willing to share or not. Some people are pretty secretive about what they do. That attitude always amazes me because we ALL had someone who helped us when we were trying to learn and I think we owe it to others to "pass it along".

Mike Cash · 08-23-2011, 05:46 AM

Twain had this to say:

There are three infallible ways of pleasing an author, and the three form a rising scale of compliment: 1, To tell him you have read one of his books; 2, To tell him you have read all of his books; 3, To ask him to let you read the manuscripts of his forthcoming book. No. 1 admits you to his respect; no. 2 admits you to his admiration; No. 3 carries you clear into his heart.

Change a word here and there and it applies to photography just as well.

Ask.

The worst thing that can possibly happen is that she says, "No."

daacon · 08-23-2011, 06:07 AM - **1 Like**

All good advice here. A polite and genuine conversation about how you admire her work, dabble in the 'field' yourslef. Compliments about how much 'better' her shots seems to be than yours in similiar situations and would she mind offereing up any tips over a lunch or coffee - explicitly metion you are not trying to take away her clients but you want to improve your skills. Heck it could even be a course recommdation.

Worded genuinely as others have said the worst case scenario is she says no (and she feels much better about herslef) sounds like win win to me (although you may not win but hey you lost nothing other than perhaps the cost of a cup of coffee or lunch).

normhead · 08-23-2011, 06:27 AM

I spent a few hours talking to a couple 20 somethings at my last fair. It's not a problem for me, most of my photos are taken places where, you have to go where I go to get the shots I get, I don't think for a second those young guys are going to go where I go. But even if they did, it's not an issue. I had to laugh at a number of things though. Their assumption all they had to do was mimic my work and their work would be better, because i was shooting Pentax and they were shooting Canon, one of the guys thought I'd created a dark area around the trees on one of my prints when I burned the sky.. and stuck to his guns.. even though I knew he was wrong, sometimes nature just doesn't look the way you think it should. My advice would be, if you are going to ask, have a bit of humility.. don't end up looking like a knob. On the other hand, I had a great discussion with a 16 year old about whether you should learn to shoot stills before you learn to shoot movies.., that kid, I'm going to watch for him... he's going somewhere.

Rupert · 08-23-2011, 06:37 AM

Most professionals are willing to share...to a point. They won't give away their most valuable secrets, but will share plenty of great information that might lead you in the right direction.
The answer she gives is as much a toss up as whether or not you would take unsolicited advice from a stranger. Personality is more involved than "professional courtesy" ....if you approach it the right way, you will most likely get some of that great information.
Regards!

TaoMaas · 08-23-2011, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by normhead

My advice would be, if you are going to ask, have a bit of humility...

That's a good suggestion. I've had interns ask me about how I do things, then turn around and criticize my methods because it's not what their teacher told them. I always think, "If you knew the answer, why are you asking me?" I don't think my ways are the only way, so I don't expect them to take what I say as gospel and disregard their teacher. I really hope that they'll take it all in and come up with a better way of working.

Clicker · 08-23-2011, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by SlickYamaha

Its not so much that, but that none of us are competing for work. The difference is that we both live in the same area. So if I take pointers from her, she is potentially losing clients because of advise she gave me. If I take pointers from someone 9 states away, its a no big deal. Se what I'm saying...?

Somewhat true and at the same time not because the final decision is the clients on who they choose...you can create the same style as another photographer but you cannot copy their entire business plan in detail, that is usually not shared. You can start a price war but you'll both end up losing in the long run.
You can be either an excellent photographer and a very poor business person or a poor photographer but and excellent business person.

TomK · 08-23-2011, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by daacon

All good advice here. A polite and genuine conversation about how you admire her work, dabble in the 'field' yourself. Compliments about how much 'better' her shots seems to be than yours in similar situations and would she mind offering up any tips over a lunch or coffee - explicitly mention you are not trying to take away her clients but you want to improve your skills.

Sounds like the right approach.
Try it this way and see what happens. She may be flattered but still say no.
That is OK too. At least she knows that you are interested in improving your work and that you apparently greatly admire hers.
Who knows what this "no" could turn into as far as future assignments or referrals?

Let us know what happens.

08-22-2011, 06:50 PM	#1
SlickYamaha Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Bel Air MD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 840	Is it wrong to ask...? This is a strange question to ask, but let me give some background... I am no professional (Proven by all the topics I post on the "Q&A" Section) But I do like to do some family portraits, senior portraits, or baby photos for friends and family. Its not something I do for a living, but I do put it out as a "business" when people ask. Anyway, before my mother retired, one of the teachers she worked with had a daughter who is a photographer. She is quite known around town, and does some really amazing work. I do not know her personally, but I am friends with her mother as well. I have remarked several times about how beautiful her photographs are, and we have chatted a bit, but other than that, she wouldnt notice me on the street if we passed eachother. I have always wanted to know how she creates some of her photos, what type of lenses she uses, technique, post processing, etc.. But I feel its rather tacky to ask. We take the same type of photos, but hers are quite something to look at. Now I know with practice comes talent, but helpful hints dont hurt either. So just wondering, if a "competitor" asked you about your photos, how you created them, etc, would you find it flattering, or tacky? *I should say, I dont want to "copy" off of her at all, I just would like to learn some new ideas for improving my work.

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08-22-2011, 07:18 PM	#2
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	No not all i know of many pro photographers who share knowledge not only to inform but to form future working relationships especially when a helping hand is needed. Successful working photographers network really well, they understand "there is really nothing new in photography, just new photographers" network

08-22-2011, 07:19 PM	#3
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Originally posted by SlickYamaha So just wondering, if a "competitor" asked you about your photos, how you created them, etc, would you find it flattering, or tacky? This is funny - funny as we all here on the forums ask everyday about other peoples photos and how they created them; so no I do not find it tacky as we all do it here everyday. ---

08-23-2011, 02:08 AM	#4
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134	Originally posted by joe.penn This is funny - funny as we all here on the forums ask everyday about other peoples photos and how they created them; so no I do not find it tacky as we all do it here everyday. --- The wonder of the internet. I get it though. It's so much easier to ask a "stranger" than someone face to face I suppose.

08-23-2011, 02:47 AM	#5
SlickYamaha Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Bel Air MD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 840 Original Poster	Its not so much that, but that none of us are competing for work. The difference is that we both live in the same area. So if I take pointers from her, she is potentially losing clients because of advise she gave me. If I take pointers from someone 9 states away, its a no big deal. Se what I'm saying...?

08-23-2011, 02:56 AM	#6
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	The main question you need to ask yourself is... Are the people who you are taking photos for reasonably likely (aka will they pay her prices) to use her services if you didn't shoot them? If the answer is NO, then you are not taking any clients away from her and it would be fair to ask her about her techniques or to look at your portfolio and give you some feedback/pointers. If the answer is YES, then you should not bother her beyond striking up a general conversation about photography. If she then chooses to give you pointers then that is her decision. Mike

08-23-2011, 04:50 AM	#7
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	I think it depends upon the photographer whether they'd be willing to share or not. Some people are pretty secretive about what they do. That attitude always amazes me because we ALL had someone who helped us when we were trying to learn and I think we owe it to others to "pass it along".

08-23-2011, 05:46 AM	#8
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Twain had this to say: There are three infallible ways of pleasing an author, and the three form a rising scale of compliment: 1, To tell him you have read one of his books; 2, To tell him you have read all of his books; 3, To ask him to let you read the manuscripts of his forthcoming book. No. 1 admits you to his respect; no. 2 admits you to his admiration; No. 3 carries you clear into his heart. Change a word here and there and it applies to photography just as well. Ask. The worst thing that can possibly happen is that she says, "No."

08-23-2011, 06:07 AM - 1 Like	#9
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914	All good advice here. A polite and genuine conversation about how you admire her work, dabble in the 'field' yourslef. Compliments about how much 'better' her shots seems to be than yours in similiar situations and would she mind offereing up any tips over a lunch or coffee - explicitly metion you are not trying to take away her clients but you want to improve your skills. Heck it could even be a course recommdation. Worded genuinely as others have said the worst case scenario is she says no (and she feels much better about herslef) sounds like win win to me (although you may not win but hey you lost nothing other than perhaps the cost of a cup of coffee or lunch).

08-23-2011, 06:27 AM	#10
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,448	I spent a few hours talking to a couple 20 somethings at my last fair. It's not a problem for me, most of my photos are taken places where, you have to go where I go to get the shots I get, I don't think for a second those young guys are going to go where I go. But even if they did, it's not an issue. I had to laugh at a number of things though. Their assumption all they had to do was mimic my work and their work would be better, because i was shooting Pentax and they were shooting Canon, one of the guys thought I'd created a dark area around the trees on one of my prints when I burned the sky.. and stuck to his guns.. even though I knew he was wrong, sometimes nature just doesn't look the way you think it should. My advice would be, if you are going to ask, have a bit of humility.. don't end up looking like a knob. On the other hand, I had a great discussion with a 16 year old about whether you should learn to shoot stills before you learn to shoot movies.., that kid, I'm going to watch for him... he's going somewhere.

08-23-2011, 06:37 AM	#11
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Most professionals are willing to share...to a point. They won't give away their most valuable secrets, but will share plenty of great information that might lead you in the right direction. The answer she gives is as much a toss up as whether or not you would take unsolicited advice from a stranger. Personality is more involved than "professional courtesy" ....if you approach it the right way, you will most likely get some of that great information. Regards!

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08-23-2011, 07:36 AM	#12
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by normhead My advice would be, if you are going to ask, have a bit of humility... That's a good suggestion. I've had interns ask me about how I do things, then turn around and criticize my methods because it's not what their teacher told them. I always think, "If you knew the answer, why are you asking me?" I don't think my ways are the only way, so I don't expect them to take what I say as gospel and disregard their teacher. I really hope that they'll take it all in and come up with a better way of working.

08-23-2011, 08:53 AM	#13
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Originally posted by SlickYamaha Its not so much that, but that none of us are competing for work. The difference is that we both live in the same area. So if I take pointers from her, she is potentially losing clients because of advise she gave me. If I take pointers from someone 9 states away, its a no big deal. Se what I'm saying...? Somewhat true and at the same time not because the final decision is the clients on who they choose...you can create the same style as another photographer but you cannot copy their entire business plan in detail, that is usually not shared. You can start a price war but you'll both end up losing in the long run. You can be either an excellent photographer and a very poor business person or a poor photographer but and excellent business person.

08-23-2011, 10:30 PM	#14
TomK Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NJ USA Posts: 281	Originally posted by daacon All good advice here. A polite and genuine conversation about how you admire her work, dabble in the 'field' yourself. Compliments about how much 'better' her shots seems to be than yours in similar situations and would she mind offering up any tips over a lunch or coffee - explicitly mention you are not trying to take away her clients but you want to improve your skills. Sounds like the right approach. Try it this way and see what happens. She may be flattered but still say no. That is OK too. At least she knows that you are interested in improving your work and that you apparently greatly admire hers. Who knows what this "no" could turn into as far as future assignments or referrals? Let us know what happens.