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09-07-2011, 10:39 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I wonder if Mike feels that these people should be culled out like downer cattle, preferably before they spread their bad genes to another generation of drug addicted pseudo people.
Load em in cattle cars and send em to the ovens, those useless wastes of flesh.
But that would mean Big Government - as he says, these are lifestyle choices, and if we remove moral hazard from all lifestyle choices, why, then people will be incentivized to choose the correct ones.

Another idea would be for churches and private enterprises to set up work-indoctrination camps to provide correct thinking patterns to those who wish to avail themselves. Once more, this should not be state run, as that is counter to our liberties.

The unfortunate fact is that there will always be those who fail, and there will never be anything the state can do - without severe harm to overall society - to change that. There is no need to blow this up to be inclusive of everyone who is unemployed currently: obviously there are lots of people who want to work and should be provided the opportunity to work. The problem is that due to income transfer, regulation, lack of tort reform, and an overly large government, these jobs are not being created by the private sector -and due to overly generous unemployment and welfare assistance, many are dis-inclined to find work.

Clearly there will be economic cycles where jobs are eliminated; however the bounce back of the economy is only hindered by inept Keynsean policies and misplaced 'humanitarian' aid.



09-07-2011, 10:46 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
Another idea would be for churches and private enterprises to set up work-indoctrination camps to provide correct thinking patterns to those who wish to avail themselves. Once more, this should not be state run, as that is counter to our liberties.
You mean like the ones that already exist?

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09-07-2011, 11:12 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
But that would mean Big Government - as he says, these are lifestyle choices, and if we remove moral hazard from all lifestyle choices, why, then people will be incentivized to choose the correct ones.
Nah, it's easier than that.
Make the first question you are asked on a job interview "Are you presently employed?".
If the answer is yes, continue the interview. If the answer is no, then just shoot, shovel and shut up.
09-07-2011, 11:21 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
And unemployment, for all practical purposes can be eliminated in short order.
MMT makes some tall claims which are you know cannot be lived up to and people are pinning high hopes upon something that is totally unproven and extremely risky.

09-07-2011, 11:29 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
MMT makes some tall claims which are you know cannot be lived up to and people are pinning high hopes upon something that is totally unproven and extremely risky.
Actually it's proven every day.. see Mosler post:
QuoteQuote:
Fortunately, with the bad news of the downgrade of US Treasury securities by Standard & Poor's to AA+ from AAA, a very important lesson was learned. Interest rates actually came down. And substantially. With that the financial and economic heavy weights from the 4 corners of the globe made a very important point. The markets are telling us something we should have known all along. The US is not Greece for a very important reason that has been overlooked. That reason is, the US federal government is the issuer of its own currency, the US dollar. While Greece is not the issuer of the euro.
YOU just CHOOSE not to see it...

Where's the hyperinflation ( oh yea hiding behind the corner as well)..

TRILLION DOLLAR unpaid wars and we get deflation......

The list goes on oh flat earther..........

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2011/06/obama-deficit-job-growth.html

QuoteQuote:
The bottom line is this: As long as unemployment remains high, the deficit will remain high. So instead of dreaming about ways to pull off the impossible, it’s time get to work on a plan to increase employment.

Here’s the formula: Spending creates income. Income creates sales. Sales create jobs.

If you think you can cut the deficit without destroying jobs, dream on.
http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/06/is-high-and-increasing-government-de...nvestment.html

Last edited by jeffkrol; 09-07-2011 at 11:43 AM.
09-07-2011, 11:37 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Actually it's proven every day.. see Mosler post:


YOU just CHOOSE not to see it...

Where's the hyperinflation ( oh yea hiding behind the corner as well)..

TRILLION DOLLAR unpaid wars and we get deflation......

The list goes on oh flat earther..........

Can Obama cut the deficit and have job growth too? | Credit Writedowns
I'm confused, so are we already in the era of MMT and Bush, Cheney, and the neocon congress are the ones who did it?
09-07-2011, 11:47 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I'm confused, so are we already in the era of MMT and Bush, Cheney, and the neocon congress are the ones who did it?
We were but the funds were misdirected into foreign economies not our own.. As Cheney sad "Reagan proved deficits don't matter"..

Suddenly the Repubs have shifted to class targeted "austerity" yet continue on the DDM (deficits don't matter) theory for taxes and the Oligarchy........

Much as the Dems shouted "your going to bankrupt the economy" during the Reagan/ bush spending sprees......

I don't blame you for being confused.. the similist things are the hardest to understand........

Fine end all taxes but don't end domestic spending, increase it.. period.........

WE have already seen the pushback regarding the "payroll tax holiday" yet increasing any Oligarchs tax is a no..no....yet they haven't done one bloody thing to help the economy (except their own).......

Hypocratic states of America

09-07-2011, 12:00 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
We were but the funds were misdirected into foreign economies not our own.. As Cheney sad "Reagan proved deficits don't matter"..

Suddenly the Repubs have shifted to class targeted "austerity" yet continue on the DDM (deficits don't matter) theory for taxes and the Oligarchy........

Much as the Dems shouted "your going to bankrupt the economy" during the Reagan/ bush spending sprees......

I don't blame you for being confused.. the similist things are the hardest to understand........

Fine end all taxes but don't end domestic spending, increase it.. period.........

WE have already seen the pushback regarding the "payroll tax holiday" yet increasing any Oligarchs tax is a no..no....yet they haven't done one bloody thing to help the economy (except their own).......

Hypocratic states of America
Now I am even more confused! So Reagan started it and it is Reagan's fault that our country is where it is today so in order to proceed we must continue Reagan's PROGRESSIVE policies?
09-07-2011, 12:02 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I'm confused, so are we already in the era of MMT and Bush, Cheney, and the neocon congress are the ones who did it?
MMT only seeks to describe the reality of fiat money. We have been in the era of MMT for close to 40 years.
09-07-2011, 12:06 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
MMT only seeks to describe the reality of fiat money. We have been in the era of MMT for close to 40 years.
Oh, ok so it was Nixon that did it.

Am I the only one who finds it extremely ironic that all the presidents hanging in the MMT hall of fame are Republicans?
09-07-2011, 12:08 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
Now I am even more confused! So Reagan started it and it is Reagan's fault that our country is where it is today so in order to proceed we must continue Reagan's PROGRESSIVE policies?
IF you don't include the economy crushing/ poor whacking regressive removal of spending.. YES.............
Throw in "medicare for all" and you got a deal..............

JUST for curiosity:
QuoteQuote:
"The Constitution nowhere declares that nothing shall be money unless made of metal." The Court argued that the Congress can manipulate the value of precious metals to the point where it can be rendered as inherently worthless as paper (the Congress could enact a law that says that 10-dollar silver coins weigh 400 grains in one year and 500 grains the next, effectively devaluing the silver). The Court even noted the arguments of the Framers against "emitting bills," but wrote that the Framers, one, could not anticipate all governmental needs, and, two, allowed the Congress to do what was necessary and proper to carry out its powers. In this case, that includes printing paper money.

So, said the Court, even though paper money is not expressly permitted by the Constitution, it is also not expressly forbidden, and in spite of the extra-constitutional opinions of some of the Framers, the ability to print paper money is a necessary and proper power of the federal government.
Constitutional FAQ Answer #154 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
09-07-2011, 12:12 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
Oh, ok so it was Nixon that did it.

Am I the only one who finds it extremely ironic that all the presidents hanging in the MMT hall of fame are Republicans?
Funny isn't it.. It would be even funnier if we found out they they actually knew what they were doing..........see spending a trillion dollars on a war and expecting senior citizens and retirees to pay for it is just morally wrong......... especially since "we" don't HAVE TO pay for it..... since it is just a spreadsheet identity That's the part that loses me..

THE problem is that they have to show "fiscal constraint" by freeing up capita for the Oligarchs but making the "little people" pay some of it back.. THAT'S where they lose out..

As I said, watch the backlash on the "payroll tax holiday extension".........

IF the Clinton "surpluses" would have held we would probably have had a recession BUT that does NOT mean you spend it on massive bribes and illegal war overseas.........
AND you DO have to "watch" the Oligarchs as they will play havoc with your economy.... it is their nature.. amoral at best, beholding to no-one but themselves.

THERE IS the true difference............

Last edited by jeffkrol; 09-07-2011 at 12:20 PM.
09-07-2011, 12:20 PM   #28
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The "payroll tax holiday" was a suckers bet. Let me eat the hot dog and I'll gladly pay you for it the tuesday after next and I will let you eat some relish today and pay for it next tuesday. There is no backlash, that is never going to get extended and everyone knew it since before they passed it. Your a fool if you didn't see that coming.
09-07-2011, 12:22 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
The "payroll tax holiday" was a suckers bet. Let me eat the hot dog and I'll gladly pay you for it the tuesday after next and I will let you eat some relish today and pay for it next tuesday. There is no backlash, that is never going to get extended and everyone knew it since before they passed it. Your a fool if you didn't see that coming.

SIGH.. one step forward.. 2 steps back.. you ARE a good soldier............
IT'S THE FED, THERE IS NOTHING TO PAY BACK.................................... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09-07-2011, 12:35 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
SIGH.. one step forward.. 2 steps back.. you ARE a good soldier............
IT'S THE FED, THERE IS NOTHING TO PAY BACK.................................... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not about payback, it was just about the timing... the republicans put a bargaining chip that lasted for 1 year on the table (the payroll tax cut) to get the democrats to put up a bargaining chip that lasted 2 years (the top tier of income tax cuts). The payroll tax cut will not be extended without the democrats conceding something else. To take the cake for being stupid (or just really only playing for the oligarchs anyway) the democrats let their end of the deal expire in the middle of election season, knowing that the tea party is coming to congress, and the payroll tax cut is a pittance compared to income tax cuts. Like I said it was a suckers bet and anyone pretending to fight for an extension is just engaging in some political theatre to appease some voter demographic. The only way they will actually get an extension is if they give up something even more valuable.
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