[grhazelton]

Have a look at the link below to National Public Radio's "All Things Considered," as broadcast today. It seems that the Mall of America will finger folk for "suspicious behavior," call in the local cops, who then refer the case to the FBI.

Note that a 63 year old veteran was detained in the Mall's subterranean "jail" for over an hour, his camcorder memory card confiscated, and a sizeable police file generated all for the heinous crime of filming while walking.

Under Suspicion At The Mall Of America : NPR

I certainly hope that the people mentioned in the story who were rousted will contact the ACLU.

This isn't the United States of America I grew up in.

[boriscleto]

Why would the ACLU be involved? You have no rights in a shopping mall, it's private property.

[luftfluss]

Why would the ACLU be involved? You have no rights in a shopping mall, it's private property.

Private venues that are used for common public assemblage are, for most intents and purposes, governed under the same set of laws that apply to "public" public venues.

[boriscleto]

Private venues that are used for common public assemblage are, for most intents and purposes, governed under the same set of laws that apply to "public" public venues.

Nice fantasyland you live in. Can I move there?

Paul Ryan Town Hall Meeting: Three Arrested for Questioning His Jobs and Tax Cuts Record | Death and Taxes

Daily Kos: Police remove Eric Cantor protesters from a hotel ballroom they rented

Pruneyard v Robins held that "A state can prohibit the private owner of a shopping center from using state trespass law to exclude peaceful expressive activity in the open areas of the shopping center." But unless a state, like California, explicitly excludes a private owner from prohibiting expressive activity you have no rights on that private owners property.

Good luck getting the Robert's court to uphold that decision if it's ever challenged.

[Wheatfield]

This is one way to halt immigration. As the USA becomes what people living under repressive regimes have to put up with, she will become less and less attractive to immigrants who can just as easily stay home and be arrested for nothing.

[boriscleto]

This is one way to halt immigration. As the USA becomes what people living under repressive regimes have to put up with, she will become less and less attractive to immigrants who can just as easily stay home and be arrested for nothing.

The fact that there are no jobs here is a much bigger deterrent to immigration.

[TomK]

The article the OP linked to includes this -

And an FBI agent told them: Seize the memory card in Van Asten's camera and delete all his videos.

I read this as-
Seize the evidence of a possible major terrorist plot and likely large death toll.
Then destroy the evidence by deleting the memory card videos.
Then let this potentially dangerous individual go. Having deleted this one memory card full
of videos will cripple the terrorist cell and prevent the planning of any future attacks on
the M of A by him and his cohorts.
OK. Sure feel safer now.

[MRRiley]

Chalk up another victory for the terrorists!

And Tom... yeah, I tumbled to the guidance from the FBI to destroy the videos... Nice way to destroy evidence if it turned out the guy was actually a bad guy. It also violates the guy's 4th Amendment rights since it was a governmental agency directing and another doing the destruction. Had the Mall Cops done it it would have been destruction of private property and/or theft.

[luftfluss]

Nice fantasyland you live in. Can I move there?

Paul Ryan Town Hall Meeting: Three Arrested for Questioning His Jobs and Tax Cuts Record | Death and Taxes

Daily Kos: Police remove Eric Cantor protesters from a hotel ballroom they rented

Pruneyard v Robins held that "A state can prohibit the private owner of a shopping center from using state trespass law to exclude peaceful expressive activity in the open areas of the shopping center." But unless a state, like California, explicitly excludes a private owner from prohibiting expressive activity you have no rights on that private owners property.

Good luck getting the Robert's court to uphold that decision if it's ever challenged.

You're links don't prove anything. You might want to make further use of your Wikipedia-wandering fingers and actually learn rather than parrot.

I'd elucidate further, but given your unwarranted hostility toward me, why should I? (That's rhetorical, BTW)

[Wheatfield]

I'm waiting for the inevitable situation where some poor schmuck gets whacked by some idiot Ramboid who figures he's doing the good ol' USA a favour by killing one of them there camera totin' terrorists.

[SteveM]

I'm waiting for the inevitable situation where some poor schmuck gets whacked by some idiot Ramboid who figures he's doing the good ol' USA a favour by killing one of them there camera totin' terrorists.

That's not nice wheatfield. Since both are obliged to pack automatic assault rifles....that would flatten the tires of the dear old folks camping in the Walmart parking lot.

[boriscleto]

Our Creeping Police State: How Going to the Mall of America Can Land You in an FBI Counterterrorism Report | | AlterNet

This one mentions that because MoA is a privately owned they make their own rules.

[grhazelton]

Our Creeping Police State: How Going to the Mall of America Can Land You in an FBI Counterterrorism Report | | AlterNet

This one mentions that because MoA is a privately owned they make their own rules.

Well, how wonderful for them. As a Southerner, I well remember the signs "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone," which meant, of course, African Americans. We can't make our own rules if they ignore the law! Didn't the spate of civil rights legislation stop this sort of thing? I imagine that the Mall's draconian rules would run afoul of many hithertofore commonly accepted rights, although if a court case reached the Roberts court we might find otherwise.

Was Van Austen ever read his rights? Was he actually arrested? Would not the seizure of his cam-corder's memory card and the erasure of its contents constitute unlawful taking, unless he'd been arrested, and perhaps even then? What would have happened had he demanded to contact a lawyer?

I had a very minor run-in for daring to use my K10d at a local mall to photograph my granddaughter. A Segway-riding rent-a-cop accosted me, ignoring others sporting point and shoot and cell cameras. Sure enough there was a small sign, maybe 24" x 36" listing prohibited activities, easy to miss.

Maybe the MoA needs huge crawl signs everywhere, stating that shopping while Hispanic or African-American or Near-Eastern is viewed as a suspicious activity.

It seems to me that the Junior G-Men that the Israeli former security maven hires need a lot more training, and that the local cops need to stand down. 1,200 busts a year out of what, 750,000 "guests," and how many actual terrorist attacks were foiled? I'll bet we'll never know.

[Jeff_H]

Don't shop at the MOA anymore. Problem solved.

[TomK]

Maybe the MoA needs huge crawl signs everywhere, stating that shopping while
Hispanic or African-American or Near-Eastern is viewed as a suspicious activity.

And how about really trying to protect their visitors/customers.
How about a large sign that says something like -

WARNING !
THIS AREA IS A PRIMARY TARGET OF TERRORISTS.
OUR SECURITY IS AS STRICT AS POSSIBLE BUT BE
WARNED THAT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN MAY BE
SUBJECT TO DEATH BY TERRORISTS ON THESE
PREMISES.
SHOP AT YOUR OWN RISK !

Yeah. I'll bet that would really happen !