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09-27-2011, 09:11 AM   #76
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Consider: I start up a new business using my own savings and money begged from friends and relatives. All this start up cash has already been taxed. It is a success, and I have loads of customers paying me with their already taxed cash. I pay corporate tax and I pay myself a small salary on which I pay income tax - all this money has come to me already taxed. Finally I hire an employee, who I pay a salary to, and withhold taxes from, all with money that has come to me already taxed.

Furthermore, before I got my money, and before my customers got theirs, the money had already been taxed when it 'belonged' to someone else... and so on.

So how's my dying logically going to go tax free?

09-27-2011, 09:38 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnInIndy Quote
That money was already taxed once. So it's ok to tax it again when it is inheritance? What right does the government have to get taxes twice on the same pool of money? Should we then tax life insurance proceeds? Why do lawyers think they are entitled to be paid $300+ per hour + expenses? Or get so much of a settlement? Sometimes more than the client?
Money is taxed over and over and over again, as it changes hands. Property is taxed every year whether or not it changes hands. The "taxed once" argument makes no sense. On death, the property goes from the person who may have "earned" it to a person who didn't. My question to Colby was why he felt it immoral to tax it at that point?

Life insurance is not taxed because it has a statutory exception. It is a favorite of the legislators, and there are all kinds things you can do with a life insurance policy tax free, that you can't do with other investments. I'm not sure all of that makes any real sense, either. It probably helps the government collect the inheritance tax, though.

I don't see what fees negotiated with a lawyer, doctor or accountant, the price of a new car or price of any good or service have to do with the "morality" of taxes. That just sounds like a clumsy personal dig.
09-27-2011, 02:59 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
And that sounds like unreasoned conservative dogma. Why? Get past the talking point. Why is is more "moral" to tax living, working, earning people than heirs who did not earn the income?

Well eventually they run out of other peoples money and come for yours.

That is a quote or a close paraphrase that I can not attribute.
09-27-2011, 03:01 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Colbyt Quote
Well eventually they run out of other peoples money and come for yours.

That is a quote or a close paraphrase that I can not attribute.
Wallstreet is doing that now.
Why aren't you complaining about that?
Libertarians are so darn confused.

09-27-2011, 03:01 PM - 1 Like   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Colbyt Quote
That is a quote or a close paraphrase that I can not attribute.
Margaret Thatcher.

The actual quote is: "...and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."

QuoteOriginally posted by shooz Quote
Wallstreet is doing that now.
The difference is that you can choose not to give your money to Wall Street.
09-27-2011, 03:13 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
The difference is that you can choose not to give your money to Wall Street.
it would be nice if that were true.
Unfortunately it isn't.
09-27-2011, 03:16 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by shooz Quote
it would be nice if that were true.
Unfortunately it isn't.
Actually, you're right. When the President writes them a big fat check of taxpayer money and says "here's the money back that you stole then lost, now run along and play"; you really don't have a choice.

09-27-2011, 03:29 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Margaret Thatcher.

The actual quote is: "...and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."

The difference is that you can choose not to give your money to Wall Street.
Try not doing business without a bank. It is about as easy as not doing business with the government.

Last edited by GeneV; 09-27-2011 at 03:39 PM.
09-27-2011, 03:30 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Colbyt Quote
Well eventually they run out of other peoples money and come for yours.

That is a quote or a close paraphrase that I can not attribute.
...or relate it to the question at hand. That quote has exactly what to do with whether it is more moral to tax earning people or to tax heirs?

By the way, I'm much happier if they don't come for my money until after I am dead.

Last edited by GeneV; 09-27-2011 at 03:50 PM.
09-27-2011, 04:31 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
...

By the way, I'm much happier if they don't come for my money until after I am dead.
How's that workin' for ya.
09-27-2011, 04:39 PM   #86
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but private enterprise coming after your money is noble and natural. Religion coming after money starts to seem craven, you know it should be you giving alms... but government coming after your money is criminal and a perversion of nature.

You shop at any large chain store? Use an internet/phone/cable service? Purchase brand name or store name products? Drive a car? Have a mortgage or credit card or bank account? Your town, county, state or national government issue bonds? Participate in a retirement plan? Have insurance? buy anything imported? Out back you are feeding Wall St. It isn't that wall st is greedy, always has been, but that financial engineering has become abstracted and elephantine and largely represents rent charged on everyone.

But, it is noble because it is done for the benefit of a few owners rather than politicians and the general public.
09-27-2011, 04:53 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
How's that workin' for ya.
Good news is I'm still breathin'. Bad news is I'm still payin'. I'm still happy.
09-27-2011, 10:16 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
When the President writes them a big fat check
That was extortion, I thought you understood that.
We were hardly the only country to do that, but it was our trading corporations that made it so. More American exceptionalism?

You give free money to wallstreet every single day. Unless you live in cave and eat oak leaves.
Even that's not enough for them.

Do you really think that's OK?

PS. Did you not read the thread on ALEC?
Truly look at what this entity is doing, and you will see that what George Carlin once said is true.
Look past the politicians to the ones who are controlling them.
That's who really has us by the nads.

Last edited by shooz; 09-27-2011 at 10:26 PM.
09-28-2011, 12:34 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
...

The difference is that you can choose not to give your money to Wall Street.
But you cannot choose not to be affected. Problems in the financial markets mean problems for everyone, not just those who work there or have money invested.
09-28-2011, 05:00 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by jolepp Quote
But you cannot choose not to be affected. Problems in the financial markets mean problems for everyone, not just those who work there or have money invested.
Certainly everyone is affected. Someone who put their money in a bank savings account at nearly zero interest isn't adversely affected nearly as much as someone who let a broker "invest" it for them and subsequently lost it. Both people will suffer the secondary consequences of an economy that's in the crapper, but the first guy still has all of the cash he started with. As I've said before; they are called brokers because if if you let them handle your money long enough, you'll go broke.
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