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03-01-2012, 04:41 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
You haven't explained why I "don't get it" maybe you could help me out there?
What order of events are you speaking from?

You assume that certain things require colossal energies to do...from here, but you still aren't seeing the shapes. Only quantities.

03-01-2012, 04:56 PM   #62
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What we see is different depending our reference point and the ways we interact with it.

As far as colossal energies go: it would take more energy than exists to propel a large mass to the speed of light by 'conventional means' I would consider that a colossal energy. If you don't then perhaps you can get out and push and I'll just watch. But when you consider that distant galaxies are receding at near TSOL one could be forgiven for thinking my previous statement as BS. There is certainly a conundrum here with seemingly contradictory forces at work.
03-01-2012, 05:09 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
What we see is different depending our reference point and the ways we interact with it.

Indeed.

QuoteQuote:
As far as colossal energies go: it would take more energy than exists to propel a large mass to the speed of light by 'conventional means' I would consider that a colossal energy.
From here, yes. If 'propelling' is your intention. Yes.





QuoteQuote:
If you don't then perhaps you can get out and push and I'll just watch. But when you consider that distant galaxies are receding at near TSOL one could be forgiven for thinking my previous statement as BS. There is certainly a conundrum here with seemingly contradictory forces at work.


Don't what?

I'm only suggesting that perhaps what we see isn't what's so 'contradictory.'
03-01-2012, 05:15 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Indeed.


Don't what?

I'm only suggesting that perhaps what we see isn't what's so 'contradictory.'
I was only saying that if you don't think those energy requirements are colossal that you could 'get out and push' the Universe and I'll watch. I was making a joke.

It's way too early here for me.. I am going to push the earth with my feet and run 7.5kms right now.. Man I'm soo strong. (oops..another bad joke.. what can you do?)

And I do agree that sometimes what appears to be the case is the case.

Cheers guys

03-01-2012, 05:33 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I was only saying that if you don't think those energy requirements are colossal that you could 'get out and push' the Universe and I'll watch. I was making a joke.

It's way too early here for me.. I am going to push the earth with my feet and run 7.5kms right now.. Man I'm soo strong. (oops..another bad joke.. what can you do?)
I'm willing to bet you aren't a neutrino, (never mind 'accelerating' from a 'standing start') being my point here. You're looking for the big forces and engines, ....theopretically starting from 'the world we know,' and maybe missing something.

Frankly, from what I've seen, I'm kind of OK with that, but at least dont' waste your time.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-01-2012 at 05:39 PM.
03-01-2012, 05:43 PM   #66
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Well a neutrino could well travel faster than light for all I know as it is supposed to have near-to or no mass. One can travel through The Earth without touching a single other particle, that's how small they are. But I am no physicist and I don't make up the rules.. it's just fun to think about.
03-01-2012, 05:50 PM   #67
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I prefer to think of all of this as waves.

When we see 'a wave' at the beach, it appears to be an object moving on the surface of the water but it isn't, it's a transmission of energy through a medium. That changes of course when the wave crashes as it needs to dissipate it's energy and the water is easier to move than the beach. It seems to me that matter, at it's most basic level, is this, where 'the waves' are the particles. Moving from place to place may be as simple as a wave of energy passing through the medium and that it is a manifestation of the actual medium and not something separate. IOW, We are transmissions of energy at the sub quantum level and nothing more.. it only seems like we aren't. My point being that, even though it appears that we have the same atoms moving from place to place they are really not, as they are manifestations of the medium, like the waves at the beach, and that we are, at our most fundamental, just these waves of energy.

I have no idea why something like this could eventuate though. Just where does the 'energy' come from to ripple the pond and why is there structure?


Last edited by bossa; 03-01-2012 at 06:00 PM.
03-01-2012, 09:52 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
A lens alters the speed of the light passing through it. It is not moving the Universe as far as I can tell.
Ah, but within and without the lens, quantum froth is generating and annihilating countless mini-universes every moment. We could be next. We're doomed!
03-01-2012, 10:22 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I prefer to think of all of this as waves.

As are we.

QuoteQuote:
. My point being that, even though it appears that we have the same atoms moving from place to place they are really not, as they are manifestations of the medium, like the waves at the beach, and that we are, at our most fundamental, just these waves of energy.

Force and form, as we say in the ol' neighborhood.

Visible light interacts with a lens far more strongly than does a neutrino, though.

And isn't that interesting? What if the lens is a shape of a motion and light moves at the speed of still?



QuoteQuote:
I have no idea why something like this could eventuate though. Just where does the 'energy' come from to ripple the pond and why is there structure?
What is the sound of two hands clapping?
03-01-2012, 10:28 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Ah, but within and without the lens, quantum froth is generating and annihilating countless mini-universes every moment. We could be next. We're doomed!
I think I saw myself passing by on my way to an execution only a few minutes ago.. a lot a froth and squiggley stuff all around me too.
03-01-2012, 10:39 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
As are we.




Force and form, as we say in the ol' neighborhood.

Visible light interacts with a lens far more strongly than does a neutrino, though.

And isn't that interesting? What if the lens is a shape of a motion and light moves at the speed of still?


What is the sound of two hands clapping?
Just what is it that you are trying to say about how interesting it is that a photon can interact with a lens but a Neutrino cannot? Your smiles seem to indicate that you have some inner knowledge and wisdom that I have overlooked. Perhaps a few equations to pass the time away might help a poor fool like me gain some clue as to what you are on about.

Re' Your hand clap question: Is that meant to be some sort of indication you require applause for winning some point? I have no idea what you are talking about frankly.
03-02-2012, 01:07 PM   #72
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loose connectors

turns out some of the connections in the measuring equipment were dodgy
nothing new then. LOL
03-17-2012, 03:55 AM   #73
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BBC News - Neutrinos clocked at light-speed in new Icarus test
03-30-2012, 08:40 AM   #74
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BBC News - Neutrino 'faster than light' scientist resigns
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